HBOS CCA Response Query

[DJM10118]

Hi All,

Hopefully I have attached a couple of jpeg files! I have received a response from HBOS with regards to my CCA request. As you can see from the cover the letter they have apparently "complied with my request under S77-79 although they are still looking for the original under s60/61" They have basically sent me a statement of account as per the cover letter and two sets of PT's. I assume one is when I took our the card in 1999 and the other is my new address so applies after Jan 2007.

I defaulted on the account back in April 2009 but have been paying them every month without fail since. I have been paying approx. £60 per month and is now with Blair Oliver & Scott. £3k owing.


I am a little confused as to what is required by law to make it UE. As the agreement is pre April 2007 don't they have to supply the original signed copy not a recon of the PT's?

Any help appreciated

[DJM10118]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Maybe these might work?!

[ncf355]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Hi,

Correct, without an agreement signed by you and containing the terms as agreed at the time of signing, this is unenforceable at a court of law (as your agreement wwas taken out a LONG time before S127(3) of CCA 74' was amended in April 2007).

They would also need to have served you with a Default notice compliant with the requirements of S87/S88 of the CCA 74' before demanding early repayment of sums due under the agreement.

Personally (your decision of course), I wouldnt pay them another penny until such time they come up with a copy of the original agreement.

If you are quite capable of just filing 'threatograms' from DCA's away and forgetting about them, there is no issue.

They have already Defaulted your credit file in April 2009, so there is nothing more they can do to you, beyond taking the issue to court, and for that they would need to show the original agreement, containg the prescribedd terms of the CCA 1974, S65.


I also think they are on very dodgy ground by stating they wont communicate further with you on the matter.

[ncf355]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Oh,

I'd also send a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998, Section 7 just to get EVERY piece of data they have for your account.

Well worth £10!

[DJM10118]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Hi NCF,

I have the letter drafted up to send to Lloyds Banking Group as I hope this will cover most of, if not all of my account via HBOS, BOS etc

I was just working on the CCA for this week but I reckon a SAR would be good to claim back charges etc anyway. Will kill two birds with one stone!

Since I posted these up I have just received the actual signed agreement from HBOS and look ok to me:tinysmile_cry_t:

[DJM10118]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Ncf,

HBOS have actually sent me the application form. Are these applicable to running accounts opposed to fix-sum accounts i.e they don't need to include Apr etc for them to be enforceable?

[ncf355]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Hi,

care to put up a copy of the signed agreement (minus personal details!) and a copy of the SAR you are sending so we can offer any assistance?

[DJM10118]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

How this? I have deleted Name, Address, Employment Address and Income at the time. All the rest is as it comes

[DJM10118]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Data Controller
Lloyds Banking Group
25 Gresham Street
London
EC2V 7HN


DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998 – Subject Access Request.


Dear Sir or Madam,


I am writing to request that you forward me a copy of ALL data held by your organisation about me for both current and closed alleged accounts. This should include, but not be limited to all transaction lists, agreements, notes made on my account and copies of letters relating to my alleged accounts.



As well as my current address, previous addresses that may have been attached to these accounts include:

(Previous address here)


This request should include any data held for more than 6 years as under the Data Protection Act there is no time limit for information requested. If you do not hold data for a period longer than 6 years I also request confirmation of this in writing along with your methods used for disposal of such information to comply with the Data Protection Act stating the name and contact information of your registered Data Controller and Code Compliance Officer.

I look forward to your response within 40 days, as Lloyds Banking Groupis obliged to reply within this time under the Data Protection Act. If not I shall seek remedy from the Information Commissioner.


I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10.


Yours faithfully,

[ncf355]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Hi,

sorry for the delay in responding

If that's what they would be relying upon in court in the way of an agreement, they wouldnt stand a chance.

S60, CCA 1974 -


60 Form and content of agreements.(1)The Secretary of State shall make regulations as to the form and content of documents embodying regulated agreements, and the regulations shall contain such provisions as appear to him appropriate with a view to ensuring that the debtor or hirer is made aware of—

(a)the rights and duties conferred or imposed on him by the agreement,

(b)the amount and rate of the total charge for credit (in the case of a consumer credit agreement),

(c)the protection and remedies available to him under this Act, and

(d)any other matters which, in the opinion of the Secretary of State, it is desirable for him to know about in connection with the agreement.




Your 'agreement' has no detail of APR, minimum payment, etc so is wholly unenforceable under S127(3) due to your agreement being taken prior to April 2007

[ncf355]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

SAR looks good by the way, send that one off

[ncf355]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Just noticed your Q above, yes APR etc applies to fixed sum and running credit

[ncf355]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Some further info on 127(3) HERE

[DJM10118]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Thanks NCF. Will send the SAR next week when I have some money

So you think I have a valid case to contest UE on this account due to missing info on CCA? Just to clarify they have supplied the following:

statement of account
PT I assume for when I took out the card 1999 as old addy
PT I assume for post Jan 2007 as they have my new addy on them

Could they not suggest that by "common practice" the PT showing Apr etc were given to me at the time of signing the CCA therefore still enforceable. Halifax have clearly stated in their letter that in their opinion the matter is now closed and will not discuss with me.

I am happy to contest this as the account was defaulted in April 2009 so they cant really effect me anymore than they have. TBH I don't particularly have any assets other than my joint house with my wife which is in negative equity anyway.

Could you help me put together a letter outlining which areas I believe are non compliant on the form and that I am stopping payment on the account?


Your help is appreciated

[ncf355]

Re: HBOS CCA Response Query

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to the recent documentation you have supplied, that you allege to be my credit agreement.

It is my position that the agreement fails to include the prescribed terms of the consumer credit act 1974, Section 60 and would therefore be regarded as wholly unenforceable under Section 127(3) of the same act.

This means that should you decide to take court action to enforce the debt, the court would be unable to enforce the agreement.

Note that whilst Section 127(3) was amended to allow the courts to assess such a position, this change was not retrospective, so as my agreement is alleged to have been executed in 1999, it remains wholly unenforceable.

Therefore, as you are precluded from enforcement in a court of law, I hereby state that it is my intention to make no further payments with regard to the alleged debt and request that you cease all communication that attempts to gain payment from me.