Unfair relationship - second charge lender

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Unfair relationship

Do you have links or pdfs of the judgments? I think Panning is on our home site somewhere but I don't recall the others.

I've added links below, hope they work. :beagle:

( Case C‑243/08 Pannon GSM [2009] ECR I‑4713,paragraph 35).
( Banif Plus Bank, paragraph 28, and Asbeek Brusse and deMan Garabito, paragraph 50).
(Case C‑472/10Invitel [2012] ECR I‑0000, paragraphs 39 and 40).
( Case C‑76/10 Pohotovost’ [2010] ECR I‑11557, paragraph 61)
( Pereničová andPerenič, paragraph 35).

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship

Maybe I am just being thick, but although the links work I can find the paragraphs.

How can these help.

Thanks

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Unfair relationship

Case C‑243/08 Pannon GSM [2009] ECR I‑4713,paragraph 35

35 - The reply, therefore, to the second question is that the national court is required to examine, of its own motion, the unfairness of a contractual term where it has available to it the legal and factual elements necessary for that task. Where it considers such a term to be unfair, it must not apply it, except if the consumer opposes that non-application. That duty is also incumbent on the national court when it is ascertaining its own territorial jurisdiction.

Banif Plus Bank, paragraph 28

28 - It follows from that case-law that the full effectiveness of the protection provided for by the Directive requires that the national court which has found of its own motion that a term is unfair should be able to establish all the consequences of that finding, without waiting for the consumer, who has been fully informed of his rights, to submit a statement requesting that that term be declared invalid.

Asbeek Brusse and deMan Garabito, paragraph 50

50 - It follows from that case-law that the full effectiveness of the protection provided for by the directive requires that the national court which has found of its own motion that a term is unfair should be able to establish all the consequences of that finding, without waiting for the consumer, who has been fully informed of his rights, to submit a statement requesting that that term be declared invalid (Banif Plus Bank, paragraphs 28 and 36).

Case C‑472/10Invitel [2012] ECR I‑0000, paragraphs 39 and 40

39 - In the main proceedings, the national legislation provides that the declaration, by a court, of the invalidity of a term appearing in the GBC of consumer contracts is to apply to any consumer who has concluded a contract with a seller or supplier which includes that term. As is apparent from the case-file in the main proceedings, the subject-matter of the dispute concerns the use by the supplier of standard terms featuring the disputed term in contracts concluded with numerous consumers. It should be noted that, as the Advocate General pointed out in points 57 to 61 of her Opinion, national legislation such as that referred to in the present paragraph satisfies the requirements of Article 6(1), read in conjunction with Article 7(1) and (2), of the Directive.

40 - The application of a penalty of invalidity of an unfair term with regard to all consumers who have concluded a consumer contract to which the same GBC apply ensures that those consumers will not be bound by that term, but does not exclude the application of other types of adequate and effective penalties provided for by national legislation.

Case C‑76/10 Pohotovost’ [2010] ECR I‑11557, paragraph 61

61 - Consequently, if that court reaches the conclusion that the term at issue in the main proceedings is unfair within the meaning of Directive 93/13, it should be pointed out that, in accordance with Article 6(1) of that directive, and as provided for under national law, such a term is not to be binding on the consumer and that, moreover, under the same provision, that court will have to examine whether the contract can continue in existence without that unfair term.

Pereničová andPerenič, paragraph 35

35 - Directive 93/13 does not therefore preclude a Member State from laying down, in compliance with European Union law, national legislation under which a contract concluded between a trader and a consumer which contains one or more unfair terms may be declared void as a whole where that will ensure better protection of the consumer.

:nerd: :nerd: :nerd: :nerd: :nerd:

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship

Blemain have until Monday to give me their standard disclosure list, what can I do if I dont get it. I have already sent them mine

[pt2537]

Re: Unfair relationship

you make an application for an unless order with a sanction that they are struck out if they fail to give disclosure within 14 days.

The relief from sanctions rules have been tightened by the Jackson reforms, cases like Mannion v Ginty and Venulum show that the Courts are taking a hardline now, and LIP or Solicitor, you cock it up your not getting a second chance

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship

1. I have received a disclosure list from Blemain Finance. It includes a " Demands and Needs including statement of price" they claim they sent them to me on 3 separate occasions, yet I have not received them. Could anyone please tell me what is ment by them.
2. They claim to have "speak with notes" for an alleged telephone call made to me on the 8th September 2006, but oddly no recording of the so called "speak with". Can anyone tell me if this is of any value to them given that there is no recording

Thanks

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship

Today I received disclosure documents from Blemain. This include notes of a speak with to myself and my wife. Neither of us have recollection of the speak with. They claim we told them we could afford the loan which was £1000 per month. The loan and affordability document we signed clearly says we could afford £700.

Any ideas what i can do, given they have these alleged notes of a non existent speakwith conversation

[suffering]

Re: Unfair relationship

They claim to have various telephone conversations taped and produce transcrips of them but i am yet to here of anyone who has heard them. I am sure a court would not allow transcrips as evidence as it can be doctored to suit. ask them to send you a disc with it on, i bet they don't. Its well known that they conduct their dodgy dealing by phone so it does'nt leave evidence against them and somtimes it backfires

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship

I am going to ask them for a recording and see what happens

[suffering]

Re: Unfair relationship

( Case C‑243/08 Pannon GSM [2009] ECR I‑4713,paragraph 35).
( Banif Plus Bank, paragraph 28, and Asbeek Brusse and deMan Garabito, paragraph 50).
(Case C‑472/10Invitel [2012] ECR I‑0000, paragraphs 39 and 40).
( Case C‑76/10 Pohotovost’ [2010] ECR I‑11557, paragraph 61).
( Pereničová andPerenič, paragraph 35).

Article 6(1) of Directive 93/13 must be interpreted asmeaning that a national court which has established that a contractual term isunfair is required, first, without waiting for the consumer to make anapplication in that regard, to draw all the consequences which, under nationallaw, result from that finding in order to satisfy itself that that consumer isnot bound by that term and, secondly, to assess, in principle on the basis ofobjective criteria, whether the contract concerned can continue in existencewithout that term.

Directive 93/13 must be interpreted as meaning that anational court which has, of its own motion, established that a contractualterm is unfair must, as far as possible, apply its internal procedural rules insuch a way as to draw all the consequences which, under national law, resultfrom a finding that the term at issue is unfair, in order to satisfy itselfthat the consumer is not bound by that term.


wp

whoa...... i am sure this is very interesting and important stuff reading it is easy, but understanding it ??? as this is not an area i have concentrated on. any further advice welcome

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship - second charge lender

My understanding that welshperson used this argument. it terrified Blemain, they could not wait to come to an agreement.

Whilst I am on the subjest has anyone ever had a charge removed from their property by Blemain without having to make an application to the court.

The impression I have is that they keep the charge on even if the loan is repaid

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship - second charge lender

Just to update you. I made a part 18 request to Blemain asking where the £3700 went if they were not the provider. They said they kept £3000 and sent £700 to direct group. The say the £3000 was commission.

[Amethyst]

Re: Unfair relationship - second charge lender

Did that show on your agreement ?

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship - second charge lender

All it said on the agreement was PPI £3700. I am suing them for not refunding the PPI when I cancelled it during the cooling off period. Their defence is that they are not the providers, and that Norwich Union are. I know this is nonsense as Norwich Union were the underwriters

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship - second charge lender

I am waiting for a witness statement from Tracy Bailey. I am looking forward to it. I will post it on the page when its received