Unfair relationship - second charge lender

[figaro123]

I plan to start an unfair relationship case against a second charge lender.

Should I use an N244 application or the standard claim form N1.

Thanks

[Celestine]

Re: Unfair relationship

If you're starting the claim from scratch N1. Have you sent pre action correspondence?

What is the conduct by them that has triggered this?

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship

Not yet started anything officially. I paid the loan in full last year, they are claiming money is owed because of mortgage arrears and will not remove the charge. I am disputing this. Have requested a breakdown, they wont give it to me. I have a strong case in as much as, I wrote on the originaal application form I would have difficulty in paying as my income is sporadic, however they still agreed the loan (£40K). I have a CCJ against them for not refunding PPI when I cancelled during the cooling off period ( they have not settled the judgement). Also it was mis sold in the first place and I have received compensation from FSCS. They have not allowed for the PPI mis selling in their so called redemption figure. Also they paid a brokers fee from the loan without my written consent. Also they paid a hidden commission. Also they have not supplied me with the underwriting sheet as requested despite the fact I made a SAR application. Also have variable rates on the loan agreement and not offered an explanation why my monthly payment was raised. I have explained to them that if the PPI had not been misssold, or at least refunded when I requested it, I would not have been in arrears. My arrears were consistant with the sum of the premium which I paid up front as a single premium.

Hope this gives some back ground

[miliitant]

Re: Unfair relationship

you realy do need to work out how to quantify your loss

thats the total amount of credit minus the ppi crap would be a starting point

i take it the ppi was front loaded, that is paid up front and you end up paying it over the full term of the loan

you need a specialist ppi calculator to work out how much you were paying with and without the ppi elemant. include any unlawful penalty fees such as missed payments etc.


that will give an idea on the total amount outstanding , then offset on all your repayments will give you a figure to settle the loan

have you done a subject access request

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship

Yes Sir, I have done a SAR. I have worked out my loss in financial terms, the loss does reflect the arrears. The loss is a combination of the PPI and also the brokers fee that was paid without my written authority. I know I have great case for unfair relationship. I really need to know how to get the charge removed by the courts as the lender is being difficult. There is also the irresponsible lending card I can use, given I wrote on the application form I would have difficulty in meeting their payment schedule. It seems to me that to claim for an unfair relationship and have the agreement recinded would be the right thing to do. If I decide this is the way forward, I guess the standard claim form N1 be the form to use not an application N244


Thanks.

[miliitant]

Re: Unfair relationship

if a brokers fee was paid by you within the agreement and you were not made aware of it, that is breach of fiduciary duty and invalidates the whole agreement

i believe wilson v FCT touched on this but that was to do with a fee incorporated into the amount of credit

the case law that deals with this is

WILSON V HURSTANGER

you will be able to claim back as well i believe all contractual repayments as the original advance would be seen as a gift as the original agreement did not exist due to breach of fiduciary duty.

in this sinario unjust enrichment does not apply

study wilson v hurstanger though before doing anything

remember people

we are talking of a commission fee paid to a broker by the lender and the debtor is unaware of that commission payment which is then incorporated into the loan

[shell]

Re: Unfair relationship

So how do you find out if a brokers fee was paid? I've asked and was told no, but I know a fee was paid. I would like to know how to prove it.

[miliitant]

Re: Unfair relationship

request the underwriting sheet

the only other way is through court action

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship

I requested an underwriting sheet several times from the lender, they have always refused. Interestingly I made an application to the court under pre action protocol 31.16 (I think) , the hearing is on tuesday. I have every confidence that I will get it. The lender is "begging" me to vacate the hearing, they say that if i cancel the hearing they will send me the underwriting sheet. I said I want the sheet first. They want me to vacate the hearing first. The lender is a well known second charge lender... known in these forums anyway. I know they cannot be trusted so have said I want the sheet first.All this is part of my master plan to get the restriction released on my property. Will keep you guys posted.

[Celestine]

Re: Unfair relationship

Well done so far, and yep don't vacate that Hearing!

Look forward to hearing how you get on.

[Bill-K]

Re: Unfair relationship

Hi Figaro. If I can help with quantifying the financial loss, I'll be glad to. With mortgages, the PPI can be either a part of the original loan, and added as a one-off 'front-loaded' premium ("SPI") - OR it can be as a separate 'stand alone' policy with a monthly premium paid entirely separately. It's important to distinguish 'twixt the two when calculating claim quantum. Here are two spreadsheet/calculators you might find useful to compare your own calculations with. They both calculate in line with the FSA PS 10/12 guidelines.

[Nikolai]

Re: Unfair relationship

Don't vacate that hearing unless you get the underwriting sheet. I'd be inclined to go anyway and claim costs against them for being so intransigent. Have you got the offer from them in writing?

[figaro123]

Re: Unfair relationship

Bill thank you,k its much appreciated.

Yes I do have and offer in writing, in fact several offers. But I know if I vacate the hearing and they dont send the sheet, it will be 3 months before I get another hearing and of course the additional 80 quid I can barely afford.

All your kindness shown here has given e hope and faith.

God bless

[Magrew]

Re: Unfair relationship

Figaro, looks to me like you know how to play hardball. Keep going you are on the right path if these guys are backing you current strategy.

[enquirer]

Re: Unfair relationship

The lender is "begging" me to vacate the hearing, they say that if i cancel the hearing they will send me the underwriting sheet.

Ha! They are reaching for the rubber trousers. Press on ...