Urgent: Is this legal?

Can anyone help me before tonight (eek!!!)

I've been given the attached today with a perfectly legitimate, enforceable HP car agreement.

My question is is this additional page legal? Would it withstand scrutiny of a court of law? Can they just add on something to an already legally binding agreement like this?

Any views very gratefully received before 6pm!!!!

The urgency is because I have literally just been handed it, and the person is coming back at 6pm hoping for an answer on where she stands.

Thanks all.

Thanks

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

The HP provider would need to be able to prove that it was part of the original agreement.

A contract cannot be varied after it has been made except by mutual agreement.

They cannot just change the terms and expect them to be automatically accepted, and unless they are they are not enforceable.

The issue is likely to be an evidential one not a legal one - whether it can be demonstrarted that this page was not included or even referred to in the original agreement, the HP company are likely to argue that it was.

It is acceptable to refer to an accompanying document giving fuller Ts and Cs, you may need to check for this.

[labman]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

It was stapled to a perfectly legal HP agreement which does refer to these T&C's. I guess, sadly, that makes it legal and counting as 'within the four corners?'

The only bit which refers to this is as follows:

Missing Payments
Missing payments could have severe consequences. This could include activation of the Starter Interrupt unit fitted to your vehicle, legal proceedings being taken against you and the goods being repossessed. It could also make obtaining credit more difficult.

[Bill-K]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

Does the form 'Version' date of 11/10 at the bottom correlate with the other pages - and/or the date of the agreement ?

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

If the penalties of non-compliance are very severe and not clearly enough flagged up, you can argue contravention of UCTA

[Guest]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

Hi
As Springer says it depends on if this was embodying the agreement that was executed (at the time of signing).
Most of the terms in it seem to be pretty standard stuff, the bit about the electronic disabler is worrying, but if it was in the terms when the agreement was made there is nothing within the act that forbids it.
I couldn’t see any mention of thee CCA which is odd, may have missed it. I dint know what is on the other paperwork but regulations state that there should be mention of the one third rule on there, and also a financial illustration.
Also since 2011 the car ownership changes to the hirer in the last payment there is no longer a “purchase fee “required.
The section about being able to charge post judgement interest is nonsense of course as is the default stuff, and makes me wonder if they know that this is covered by the act.
Any of the measures on there that are none compliant or conflict with the act would just be invalid under 173, they would not effect the enforceability of the agreement as a whole.
Don’t know if any of this helps.
Peter

[labman]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

Thank you all. It's amazing how good LB can be when someone's up against a deadline.

My very sincere thanks to all of you.

There is no doubt that the agreement is compliant, as the first page clearly refers to it, it is clearly compliant with the CCA. All dates match up and it was stapled to the actual CCA agreement.

Once again, I am extremely appreciative - thanks folks!

Labman

[Guest]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

Just a final thought, i have just had a read arroud about the interupter device. It seems that there has been some question of the legality of its opperation in the states, not managed to find anything over here.
One thing i did notice was that the opperation of the device corresonded"legally" to repossession of the vehcle since the opperation of it was now in the creditors control.
This being the case , if one third of the TPP has been paid it could not be applied legally withoiut a court order, in my opinion any attempt to do so would leave the dealer open to civil action for conversion.
It is as well to check thst this feature was pointed out to the an the sale of the car also.

Peter

[Algee]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

It also says page 7 of 7. Do you have the other 6 pages?

Alan

[labman]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

Two pages I've been given - pages 6 and 7, though to be fair they appear to be the relevant pages.

Good point Peter about the devices - she wants to hand it back now after only paying two months, and thought they'd just take it back as she's lost her job. I've no idea whether this was pointed out to her at point of sale, but I can find out. Either way, I doubt it would really make a difference.

[Guest]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

Two pages I've been given - pages 6 and 7, though to be fair they appear to be the relevant pages.

Good point Peter about the devices - she wants to hand it back now after only paying two months, and thought they'd just take it back as she's lost her job. I've no idea whether this was pointed out to her at point of sale, but I can find out. Either way, I doubt it would really make a difference.

Hmm

Best see what they say when the subject is broached.

Did she pay a large deposit? If they try to play hardball and go after the full contractural amount les the vaalue of the car, it may be worth considering a section 99 voluntarry termination. Depends on the value of the car.

Hopefully they will be reasonable though and this wont be needed.

Peter

[labman]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

£2500 deposit as a part ex, paid £3800 for the car. They are selling on E Bay for about that. Interest rate 43.6% - ouch!

They want £2875 to terminate the agreement assuming they take into account the two payments made.

[Guest]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

Hi

If she has paid more than half the value of the car she need pay no more.
She needs to send them a recorded letter stating that she is terminating the vehicle under section 99 of the cca.

They will kick and scream but there is nothing that they can do.
National debtline do a template leter, let me know if you cant find it, also i think there are a few threads on here.

Peter

[labman]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

Half the value of the car, or half the value of the agreement?

[Guest]

Re: Urgent: Is this legal?

Half the value of the car, or half the value of the agreement?

Half the price of the car

Peter