DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

[craigyorks1969]

Hi I'm new to these forums and would like some advice.
I have a credit card debt of approx £9k and over 18 months ago my wife was dealing with this account, if i remember correctly it was Apex DCA, she used to work for a DCA down in Hampshire so knew some of the 'tricks of the trade' lol, and requested a 'true copy of my signed agreement' to which they duly sent just a copy of some terms and conditions(nothing with my name or signature on), and again requested a copy of my agreement, which from that time, they seemed to cease communication and also never provided the agreement.
Unfortunately we separated back in January ending up with me moving back home, and quite a few weeks later I was contacted by Westcott DCA (it seems they had bought the debt from Apex), I made postal contact with them and stated it was in dispute telling them my wife was dealing, as she requested a true copy of my agreement) a week or so later they sent me a printout of the last six years of the account statements, and shortly after they sent a letter saying, basically, a copy of the agreement couldnt be obtained and they would close their files and return it to TSB.
Now today I have received a letter from iQor saying, " ..TSB have passed your debt to iQor with instructions to recover in full..... and Our actions will continue regardless of whether you actually read this notice or not .... also we may also instruct a Debt Collector to visit your home and collect the debt personally...

I am wondering how to reply to them, should i state the a/c is in dispute, state that two previous DCA's have tried to obtain true copy of signed agreement, and failed to provide (and subsequently closed their files and returned to TSB?

Thanks in advance for your replies :tinysmile_grin_t:

[teaboy2]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

Simply send them a photo copy of the letter westcott sent you saying a a copy of the agreement can not be obtained, and then inform them that as a result the debt is not only in serious dispute, but the creditor is in default of your CCA request. As such, any enforcement is in breach of section 77 s.s4 (A) of the consumer credit act, which makes clear failure of a request made under section 77 1 prevents any enforcement of the debt. Therefore any further demands to recover the debt or any threats of legal action of issuing of a claim is in breach of the consumer credit act 1974 and therefore unlawful. But also any company making such demands would also be in breach of OFT Guidelines, the fact TSB past this debt on whilse fully aware of the above consitutes harassment as well as OFT guidelines and possibly even a breach of the data protection act 1998.

[craigyorks1969]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

Simply send them a photo copy of the letter westcott sent you saying a a copy of the agreement can not be obtained, and then inform them that as a result the debt is not only in serious dispute, but the creditor is in default of your CCA request. As such, any enforcement is in breach of section 77 s.s4 (A) of the consumer credit act, which makes clear failure of a request made under section 77 1 prevents any enforcement of the debt. Therefore any further demands to recover the debt or any threats of legal action of issuing of a claim is in breach of the consumer credit act 1974 and therefore unlawful. But also any company making such demands would also be in breach of OFT Guidelines, the fact TSB past this debt on whilse fully aware of the above consitutes harassment as well as OFT guidelines and possibly even a breach of the data protection act 1998.

Update: It seems now C(r)apQuest have now tracked me down (probably the ex Lol) regarding this matter, and even after explaining numerous other DCA's have failed to provide a true signed copy of the agreement, he was going to request a copy of it and get back to me, do they not pass account details on when they sell a bunch of accounts in one go to another DCA? So in effect they all 'start from scratch' each time? LOL

[FlamingParrot]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

Update: It seems now C(r)apQuest have now tracked me down (probably the ex Lol) regarding this matter, and even after explaining numerous other DCA's have failed to provide a true signed copy of the agreement, he was going to request a copy of it and get back to me, do they not pass account details on when they sell a bunch of accounts in one go to another DCA? So in effect they all 'start from scratch' each time? LOL

No, they don't pass account details to the other DCAs, that's why you have to inform them the account is in dispute. As it's been quite a few years, you may want to send a fresh CCA request to Crapquest, bearing in mind they've been issuing court claims like confetti! Best to stay one step ahead of them.

How old is this debt? Is it not SBd yet?

[craigyorks1969]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

No, they don't pass account details to the other DCAs, that's why you have to inform them the account is in dispute. As it's been quite a few years, you may want to send a fresh CCA request to Crapquest, bearing in mind they've been issuing court claims like confetti! Best to stay one step ahead of them.

How old is this debt? Is it not SBd yet?

Apologies for taking so long to reply, PC problems...
I believe this debt was paid towards up until approx 2009 (i think) as it was dealt with by the ex as she worked at a DCA (not on the phones, more processing bought debt, behind the scenes) and she initially requested the CCA and then as they couldn't provide, no more was paid due to a/c being in dispute... I believe CQ are attempting to provide aforementioned CCA...i cannot remember more details as it has been ages since the previous DCA attempted(no communication since... )

[craigyorks1969]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

Just been contacted by C(r)apquest, he has given me an address to send a £1 postal order, to request my CCA...could i trouble someone to provide me with a suitable template to request this?
He mentioned the account was opened in 1988 and last paid £20 to in 2009(my ex was dealing with account), even if the account has been paid upon, as he mentioned for over 20 years, are they still able/allowed to chase me for the debt? (even though previous DCA's have tried and failed to supply my CCA.), if it turns out i DO have to start paying, they cant demand an unreasonable amount can they? (I'm on Jobseekers Allowance and have other shared debt with my ex)
My ex and myself have shared debt, and I see from my access to our shared account she's paying £1p/m whereas I am paying £25p/m, surely they cant take unequal amounts from both parties? surely both @ £1p/m or both at £25p/m...one of our debts with Welcome finance my d/d was automatically adjusted when she updated her IE form, tbh i think she must have lied about her income/expenditure details as I know for a fact she bid on and paid for an iphone 5c costing £370 on ebay, im tempted to pass the user id along for their perusal lol)

[FlamingParrot]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

Apologies for taking so long to reply, PC problems...
I believe this debt was paid towards up until approx 2009 (i think) as it was dealt with by the ex as she worked at a DCA (not on the phones, more processing bought debt, behind the scenes) and she initially requested the CCA and then as they couldn't provide, no more was paid due to a/c being in dispute... I believe CQ are attempting to provide aforementioned CCA...i cannot remember more details as it has been ages since the previous DCA attempted(no communication since... )

I'm sorry I didn't reply a week ago. We had an LB meet in Brighton last w/e and a few of us were there.

From what you say above, it wouldn't be SBd yet, not for another year or two. If they couldn't provide the CCA in 2009, I very much doubt they'll be able to whip one up now.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

Just been contacted by C(r)apquest, he has given me an address to send a £1 postal order, to request my CCA...could i trouble someone to provide me with a suitable template to request this?

CCA request letter below. It should be sent recorded delivery with a PO for £1 and signed using a computer font rather than your real signature. They have 14 days to respond. :thumb:

Dear Sirs,

Account or Reference No.:

I hereby formally request a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement, pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit (12 + 2 days).

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties. Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

In line with recent OFT Guidance (issued Oct 2010) surrounding Unenforceability, I presume you're aware that the OFT has stipulated that 'sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements'. This simply means that under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

• a copy of their agreement
• copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
• a statement of account

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:

• make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
• get a court judgment against the debtor

So, in line with the OFT Guidance, and the Consumer Credit Act, please find attached my £1 payment, which is the statutory fee - note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

Yours faithfully,

He mentioned the account was opened in 1988 and last paid £20 to in 2009(my ex was dealing with account), even if the account has been paid upon, as he mentioned for over 20 years, are they still able/allowed to chase me for the debt? (even though previous DCA's have tried and failed to supply my CCA.), if it turns out i DO have to start paying, they cant demand an unreasonable amount can they? (I'm on Jobseekers Allowance and have other shared debt with my ex)

As per my post above, it's unlikely they'll be able to produce a compliant CCA at this stage. The SBd clock starts from the date of last payment (more or less), it's not related to when the account was opened. However, the account opening date is important in terms of your CCA request, as it was opened after May 85 but before April 2007, it would be unenforceable unless they were able to come up with something compliant. As you only have a couple of years before it's SBd, it wouldn't be a good idea to start paying or do anything that would acknowledge the debt and reset the clock. :clock:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

My ex and myself have shared debt, and I see from my access to our shared account she's paying £1p/m whereas I am paying £25p/m, surely they cant take unequal amounts from both parties? surely both @ £1p/m or both at £25p/m...one of our debts with Welcome finance my d/d was automatically adjusted when she updated her IE form, tbh i think she must have lied about her income/expenditure details as I know for a fact she bid on and paid for an iphone 5c costing £370 on ebay, im tempted to pass the user id along for their perusal lol)

Could you give us more details about your other/shared debts? To avoid confusion, it would be best if you started a new thread for those debts. :typing:

[craigyorks1969]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

I've read somewhere that if you sign your request letter they 'photoshop' up an agreement using that signature sometimes, can they really do that? :o

[Amethyst]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

They can. But personally I don't worry about it and just sign my letters properly. Others are paranoid about it and use electronic signatures and tamper strips. Completely up to you.

If you sent me a letter I could scan in your signature and photoshop it on to the bottom of any document, probably agreeing to give me all your worldy goods It would be fraud. So I wouldn't do it. But I could, if I wanted.

[enquirer]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

I've read somewhere that if you sign your request letter they 'photoshop' up an agreement using that signature sometimes, can they really do that?

Yes - it has happened.

Personally, in such circumstances I would be inclined to sign with something other than my usual signature. Photocopy it, and then wait and see if they drop themselves right in it.

[craigyorks1969]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

I unfortunately missed one step, lol, I have signed it with a completely different signature, but not been able to copy it .... mind you other signatures i.e. bank card etc, will prove its not my signature lol

[Emmalyn33]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

This information is very constructive for correct planning. I like your work for providing information to the other.

[craigyorks1969]

Re: DCA query, no true copy of signed agreement...

CCA request letter below. It should be sent recorded delivery with a PO for £1 and signed using a computer font rather than your real signature. They have 14 days to respond. :thumb:



As per my post above, it's unlikely they'll be able to produce a compliant CCA at this stage. The SBd clock starts from the date of last payment (more or less), it's not related to when the account was opened. However, the account opening date is important in terms of your CCA request, as it was opened after May 85 but before April 2007, it would be unenforceable unless they were able to come up with something compliant. As you only have a couple of years before it's SBd, it wouldn't be a good idea to start paying or do anything that would acknowledge the debt and reset the clock. :clock:

I posted my CCA £1 fee off, back in approx mid December, and have only just heard back from CQ 11/3/14, aren't they supposed to reply within a certain amount of time? was it 12 or 14 days? EDIT:duh 14 just spotted it in the quote LOL

They have actually supplied a poor copy of agreement (still readable, looks like a copy of a copy of a copy lol), with a maybe possible version of my signature that may have been used at that time (I wonder how they have been able to locate one when around 4 have previously failed?), how should I proceed, they want me to ring to discuss how to settle... I am going to reply via letter, as i will then have a written record of everything, plus I don't want them annoying my parents by calling their number at all hours of the day.