Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

But why would anyone carry on making contractual payments when the lender has served a DN with its various threats and the contract is clearly ended?

I would imagine that most normal people would assume that a storm's coming and that they should prepare for a fight. As the contract is terminated by the bank, who in their right mind would assume that they should continue to make payments under that contract?

I just don't get it. Do the banks assume that their customers who get into difficulty should not only understand CCA to the level of solicitor at least, but should also have extra-sensory powers and be able see well into the future?

It really is unbelievable.

LA

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

lol @ guilty.

Not really sure what the harsh punishment is ? You'll be ordered to pay what you were trying to pay (ie an affordable amount) and possibly (but not necessarily especially if you can get an installment order straight off rather than a forthwith order redtermined to a installment order) have it backed up by a charging order in case you stop payments.

It protects you in a way too, HSBC would have to apply to the court if they wanted to increase your payments etc too.

I'm not questionning you, or your motives, I'm just trying to get the full picture that will be presented to the court to see what your options are.

It sounds like you are just making an admission of the true amount owed, defending some late payment charges, offering to pay installments, and arguing that the claim shouldnt have been bought as you have offered them payments a number of times and they have declined, thus no costs, no ccj and no CO please.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

But why would anyone carry on making contractual payments when the lender has served a DN with its various threats and the contract is clearly ended?

I would imagine that most normal people would assume that a storm's coming and that they should prepare for a fight. As the contract is terminated by the bank, who in their right mind would assume that they should continue to make payments under that contract?

I just don't get it. Do the banks assume that their customers who get into difficulty should not only understand CCA to the level of solicitor at least, but should also have extra-sensory powers and be able see well into the future?

It really is unbelievable.

LA

After the contract is terminated then the contratual payments don't exist its simply a negotiation to pay off the remaining debt after the contracts ended - thus the affordable payments. She offered, and was refused, and didn't make the payments (completely understandably), so it was bound to come to a court claim where the rate and terms of repayment of the debt can be set and secured.

Even if people offer, get refused and make the payments anyway, they end up at court because some lenders are just arses, but the payments having been made puts the ball much more in their corner for making the same payments.

Yes it is wrong and annoying and frustrating because you have done everything you can to keep payments up to as high a level as you can, to get a CCJ any way. Other lenders will stick with affordable payments for years (outside the contract) till the debts paid off.

[middenmess]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

After the contract is terminated then the contratual payments don't exist its simply a negotiation to pay off the remaining debt after the contracts ended - thus the affordable payments. She offered, and was refused, and didn't make the payments (completely understandably), so it was bound to come to a court claim where the rate and terms of repayment of the debt can be set and secured.

Read more at: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN - Page 10 - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Naive question but what would be the likely result in payments ordered by the court if jumper had admitted the claim in the POC as opposed to the likely amount ordered to be paid by defending--assuming the judge finds that there is an amount to be paid?

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Naive question but what would be the likely result in payments ordered by the court if jumper had admitted the claim in the POC as opposed to the likely amount ordered to be paid by defending--assuming the judge finds that there is an amount to be paid?

Well by admitting and offering to pay, you are likely to get an installment order straight off of affordable amounts, which of course restricts the lender on getting a CO (as a CO shouldnt be awarded unless payments arent made under the original order) If defended then the order is more likely to be forthwith, and have to go to redetermination to installments, which opens the door to a CO.

Plus of course defending, depending how far it goes/how complex it becomes, can add more to the debt in the form of costs, which are payable forthwith (again opening to a CO), along with the stress, the extended time between claim and getting the CCJ registered on the credit file and thus longer to fall off, but thats only a matter of months so isn't really a huge consideration.

Defending, in this case,(on the processes and treatment not on technical DN/TN/CCA stuff) might result in the removal of court costs/sols costs and allow an arrangement to be made without a CCJ (poss under a consent order) and thus no CO, or further damage to the credit file. Or going on a strong UEA type defence might end up (if lost) with a mass of costs and a forthwith order and CO, redetermined to installments. I dont know what a win on a UEA would end up with, if no CCA then a hold on any enforcement until the true agreements located (ie its not iredeemable) and no idea what the DN arguments are meant to result in.

Just my thoughts anyway.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

It sounds like you are just making an admission of the true amount owed, defending some late payment charges, offering to pay installments, and arguing that the claim shouldnt have been bought as you have offered them payments a number of times and they have declined, thus no costs, no ccj and no CO please.
__________________


This I can live with, IF it went like this, but I am also arguing the way that HSBC have treated me.......OK might not get me anywhere, but then I will no for certain that there is no fair treatment for the debtor, which makes me laugh as it did not take my OH a fraction of effort that it has took me to settle this mess.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Whats the differences between your OH's debt and your's ?

(is it a lower/higher amount ? was his offer lower/higher ? Is his credit rating better/worse/same ? etc - was the process used the same (ie informed them in 08 of issues through cccs etc) Just see if theres a reason why yours wasnt accepted and his was.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thank you all for your help and support.

I am very open minded and appreciate all the positive and negative views put forward, some for and some against, and really have learned a lot.........but I have decided to work this out on my own and do what I think is best.

As the saying goes, you made your bed now go lie in it, well that is what I am going to do, and when I am there I am going to dream about the day all this nightmare is over.

Thank you all once again.

ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING...........TIME TO LISTEN TO SOME BLUES NOW.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Okay, absolutely your perogative, try let us know though what you decide to do and how things go for you. xx Best of luck with everything

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

No probs as Arnold Swatrzniggar would say


I'LL BE BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and if I don't I've either got 10 years for breaching my agreement and lost or I will send you a postcard from the Bahamas saying that I won and HSBC had to pay me £10k in costs LOL!!!!!!

Damn, am I dreaming already? Got to get out of this bed and wake and smell the coffee.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

On a farewell note thought I would post this info up, in case anyone goes through, lord forbid, something like I have/am.

Just dug this up, dated 06/08, I assume that June 2008.?

Maybe Ame you can add this to your library of cca terms for future ref, thanks

I must have been reading it upside down or back to front, explain why I did not get anywhere.

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...BCFinance1.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...BCFinance2.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/q...BCFinance3.jpg

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Excellent, should help with your arguments

Thanks.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

This is the best part page 3 which reads:

Be aware

If you mis payments, ignore calls and reminders and fail to comply with a demand for repayment or are unable to agree an alternative acceptable agreement we may pass details of your default to a Credit Reference Agency.

What they should have written is:

Be aware Be very aware

If you miss payments, not only will we not listen to you, no matter how much you write and inform us of your financial difficulties, you must pay us first and all other debts after, if they cut your gas and electric off, get some candles and eat raw vegetables un till you have paid us off.

We will decide what is an acceptable payment and not you, so compromise is out of the window, we will also report you to the Credit Reference Agencies before we give you a chance to explain what has happened because at the end of the day we really don't care.
And if you make a song and dance about it, not only will we apply for a charging order, but will have the right to take your house, make you bankrupt, and put you on the MOST WANTED CRIMINALS LIST all around the world.

So please be aware and do not make us angry and you would not like to see us angry. You have seen the Hulk? Well we need not go any further than that, understood?

Maybe HSBC have updated their putting your finances in order since then, and they are much more friendly, kinder and helpful towards their customers when they commit the cardinal sin and breach their agreement?

Any one have a copy please let me know.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Is there a term in the contract that allows immediate termination on a breach (ie send back cards/stop using and pay up etc).

When did you make your last full contractual payment (ie the min of £5 or 3%) ?

When was your first 'affordable' payment under the DMP (self administered or CCCS whatever).

How long were those payments made for ?

When did those payments stop ?

When was the Default notice ?

Remedy date of DN ?

When was the D put on the credit file ?

Those dates should make it obvious whether it is right or wrong (officially not morally)


What outcome are you hoping to achieve ?

(claim £3489)

Ame, may I ask why you have put claim £3489 at the bottom of your post please?

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Just to remind myself how much it was for as I kept flipping back and forgetting again (ref court track/benefits vs risk) nothing weird lol.