Being very wary of CCA UE advice

[basa48]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

And we're probably going to have a row. Sorrrrrryyyyyyyyyyy xx

Show me MBNA cases which have actually WON (ie got the debt written off) in court, or even pre court if you like, since November 2009.

Also some faulty DN cases winning in court would be nice to see............

OK not a 'win', but MBNA have offloaded my £6k debt to a DCA who are now offering 'special offers' (until the offer is £0 I have to ignore them - I have no money!).

The 'agreement' was an application with fake T&Cs. The DN was for the full balance.

Do you think they'd take it to a court?

[Crispybacon]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Sounds like a plan Crispy. If you need any help just yell.

Thanks Amethyst

I'm confident with the content of the letter and calculating prorata payment, got plenty of personal experience with that now.

Will let you know MBNA's response though!

Best

Crispy

[kyrights]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Rightly put Basa 48, there are still unenforceable agreements out there, and I also agree with Amethyst that if they bring the fight to you, then it's fair deal to fight back and not looking for a fight.

Natwest brought the fight to me for about 15k loan even when I was ina DMP, I simply cancelled the DMP as they did not accept it (I know cancelling this might not be the best move).

But then I have added unfair relationship, unfair contract terms etc to my defence. So I believe if they bring the fight, and you think you may stand a chance, then fight. With the help of this forum, the burden has been lighter as I have access to information and templates.

[Crispybacon]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

My MBNA case is finished Jan 09

Yes sorry, I'm just reading up on all the posts, theres lots! Didn't mean to rake up old ground.

The boot is on the other foot now getting back PPI owed by my bank so I can be shot of MBNA

PF

I really hope so. I hope you kick so hard up their rears you bury the boot where the sun doesn't shine

[Amethyst]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I think they are getting more confident and I think you will be running from this debt for a long time yet with it hanging over your head. I havent read your thread (linkieeeeee pls) though if it is working for you this way all kudos to you for sticking at it. I know lots of people are doing it this way - theres an entire forum set up and run on that basis (though everytime I go there I'm half squinting waiting for the inevitable court claims as people who were previously paying okay are just stopping then taking each stage as it shows up). Each to their own really, I have nothing against it personally, I try to get to know people a little bit more on here and help them work out what suits them best, if the standard UEA route works, and you dont care about credit ratings/charging orders and so on, and don't mind the DCA harrassment too much, go for your life lol. I try not to go about saying No Dont do CCA route, but I will always be honest with what I see, and its probably a bit too much common sensical for some, but seems to fit in with the mood of the judiciary at the moment.

(oops thats at Basa lol)

[Crispybacon]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Rightly put Basa 48, there are still unenforceable agreements out there, and I also agree with Amethyst that if they bring the fight to you, then it's fair deal to fight back and not looking for a fight.

Natwest brought the fight to me for about 15k loan even when I was ina DMP, I simply cancelled the DMP as they did not accept it (I know cancelling this might not be the best move).

But then I have added unfair relationship, unfair contract terms etc to my defence. So I believe if they bring the fight, and you think you may stand a chance, then fight. With the help of this forum, the burden has been lighter as I have access to information and templates.

Thanks all for all the input, sorry I can't keep up the posts!

MBNA are the only creditor I have CCA'd, simply because they were being such a**eh*les. When you come home and find your DW in tears because some scumbag has ripped strips off her on the phone, spouted a load of lies and things they 'may' do, then I am going to stand up and fight back.

All she wanted was to reduce payments for 6 months to get things back on track but MBNA wanted it all.

At the same time I don't want to 'blindly' send out CCA templates etc not knowing or understanding the legal implications, technicalities. I know the McGuffick case MBNA have quoted doesn't apply to my situation.

But could I argue that in court with my current knowledge? Not at the moment....!

I'm interested on the different grounds CCA succeed/fail and read the Eversheds article with some interest.

This is what I like about this site, it shows things warts and all, which is necessary if you want to be informed about what you're doing.

Thanks Beagles!

Crispy

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Just remember the first question,

Have you had the money.

If your answer is yes then regardless of what paperwork you have or have not had you are on the wrong foot straight away and will struggle.

Because soon as you say that common law comes into play and statutory law is out of the window.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Amethyst is right in at the end of the day it is your call, but all we can do who have already been there is put the pitfalls on record.

PF

[basa48]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Because soon as you say that common law comes into play and statutory law is out of the window.

I've never heard that common law trumps statute??

It is a fact that common law cannot overrule or alter the laws made by Parliament (the supreme lawmakers).

Credit agreements MUST be regulated by the statute - CCA1974. No judge can avoid its requirements. They can only interpret and apply the law, not set it aside and use common laws in place.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I've never heard that common law trumps statute??

It is a fact that common law cannot overrule or alter the laws made by Parliament (the supreme lawmakers).

Credit agreements MUST be regulated by the statute - CCA1974. No judge can avoid its requirements. They can only interpret and apply the law, not set it aside and use common laws in place.

Whilst that is the case, we all or should realise that that is not always how it works many judges will implement law as they see fit.

My N1 clearly stated the cca 1974 but that did not stop the barrister mentioning the common law to the judge and them the judge agreeing with him.

As I say just pointing out the pitfalls that many defendants forget and must be on there guard with a good reason why it should not apply.

PF

[WendyB]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I have no doubt that there are indeed many unenforceable CCAs out there. The question is, what is the reasoning behind wanting to prove them unenforceable? IS CCA simply being used as a Get Out of Debt Free card?

As PF says, when you are actually in court there is no guarantee that the Judge will be as up and informed on CCA as we are (or not, as the case may be). Ame has pointed out that people who have previously been happily paying and had no arrears, jump on the CCA bandwagon and find themselves with a CCJ, charging order and costs. CCA and unenforceability is being bandied about for mobile phone accounts and overdrafts. In fact it's so popular at the moment I wouldn't be surprised if it turns up as the mystery guest on this week's X Factor.
Yes, if people have tried to sort out things and get hounded by DCAs etc and the debtors are being complete unreasonable toerags and people get taken to court, then use CCA and go at them all guns blazing. But to simply use it as a quick fix to get out of what is owed is wrong, IMO. Use the technicalities to get it put right, get penalty and erroneous charges removed, get the debt reduced to what it should have been if the right technicalities had been in place in the first place and all was as it should have been. Sorry if that last bit doesn't make any sense, my original post disappeared and couldn't find my saved draft and so had to think it all out again...

Not aimed at anyone in particular, just my thoughts in general. As has already been mentioned, the pitfalls should be pointed out. CCA should not be used lightly.

[Crispybacon]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

~~~ Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide ~~~~ inc. Letters - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum is our guide to use of the CCA

Hi Amethyst

Thanks for providing that link. Glad I didn't try to tackle that when I was tired last night!

I've decided not to read the 80 pages of the Consumer Credit Act. Think I'll save that for another rainy day!

Thanks
Crispy

[basa48]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Hi Amethyst

Thanks for providing that link. Glad I didn't try to tackle that when I was tired last night!

I've decided not to read the 80 pages of the Consumer Credit Act. Think I'll save that for another rainy day!

Thanks
Crispy

You will find only about 30 or so pages are relevant to your situation. It is written to cover ALL sorts of creditor / debtor relationships. Well worth reading, but it takes a very long time to understand most of it. I doubt I fully understand half of it!

Oh and don't forget the Regs after that!!!

[Crispybacon]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Hi All

Quick update on this - got a response from MBNA today.

Despite stating very clearly that all communication should be in writing MBNA's response to Mrs Crispys payment proposal was simply:

"Thank you for your letter and payment proposal. Please contact us to discuss in more detail on the following number ...................."

DUH!

So another letter in the post back stating again all communication will be in writing, they have full information etc.

Best

Crispy

[Crispybacon]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Ok

So Mrs Crispy wants to ring them to try to get this sorted.

I smell a rat so ask her to let me speak to them on my behalf.

I speak to a lady who starts by going through my wifes I/E.

Then she asks me for my salary. I inform her that it's none of her business and this is where it gets interesting.

My wifes 'account manager' is apparently a 'go between' between us and their management committee, who will make the decision. The management committee apparently will want to see my salary too to enable them to make a decision. I inform her that my finances have nothing to do with my wifes and I'm not prepared to divulge that information. She still wants to explain her reasons for this and spouts out the same stuff and that it 'could make things more difficult to get approved, especially getting interest frozen'.

She then asks the number of dependants my wife has and then states that my wifes salary doesn't match her income and this may 'count against her'. So she then asks for some more info on the exact nature of my wifes income and then says she will get the paperwork submitted but.......

She needs a debit card payment of a months arrears to show commitment that my wife is serious about the payment arrangement. Thats fine, hwoever it was her next statement that got me riled:

She states that she cannot submit the paperwork without securing this payment. She will not even submit the paperwork to the management committee without receiving a payment.

When I ask her to place that in writing she refused stating that MBNA do not send out 'ad hoc' letters.

She then stated that if my wife had means to pay this token but weren't prepared to make a payment then this would be considered that my wife had no intention of repaying the debt!

So basically it was a blackmail attempt that for my wifes payment offer and paperwork to even be submitted to their management committee a months payment had to be made.

I also informed this (not so nice at this point) lady that I was recording the call and also had her colleagues on tape asking my wife to extend her borrowing to pay off her arrears (a breach of OFT guidelines) and that I considered this coercion a further breach. Her response was that it was a regulatory requirement to ask for payment before paperwork was considered.

I then asked her which regulatory body makes that requirement to which her response was 'I'm not going to go into that now and what regulations we are subject to are numerous and I'm not going to discuss this with you.'

So I suggested that we would make a payment in line with the payment plan at the beginning of November.

Her response was that this wouldn't work as she had to have something 'this month' and that if a payment wasn't made then the account would be handed to another manager and we would have to go through the whole process and phone call again.

So I informed her that all communication was to be placed in writing as they had already received in writing. She stated that she hadn't received that letter.

I then stated that this letter was sent recorded delivery, that MBNA had received it, and also by virtue that the very I/E sheet she was referring to was stapled to the same letter!!

She then stated that there was nothing to this effect on their systems but would ensure there was.

So the call ended as simply we were going round in circles.

Didn't even bother rattling her cage over the fact they hadn't provided a CCA to date!

Best

Crispy