Being very wary of CCA UE advice

[Crispybacon]

Hi All

When I started to control my finances and started my DMP Mrs Crispy also announced that she was having debt issues. As she knew what the financial situation was she didn't want to add to my stress and tried to muddle on but started to fall into arrears too.

She managed to come to arrangements with most of her creditors except MBNA who hassled constantly so I decided to send them a CCA request.

The attachment is the letter we got back from them. Obviously, at the moment, they admit they have no CCA, therefore nothing enforceable.

We did this mainly to give her some breathing space, and it appears to be working as MBNA are now talking 'payment plans'. We are still filing their correspondence under I for the moment.

I'm not one for blindly following the hype thats been surrounding UE and have been doing a lot of reading to form my own judgement especially recent court cases where it seems creditors are fighting back (which is not surprising considering the number of debt management companies jumping on the UE bandwagon).

I don't want to potentially make our situation worse by entrenching us in a position that could be wrong.

It would seem that going to court on a defense of missing prescribed terms, not providing an original agreement etc may not enough any more.

Was just wondering what the Beagles thoughts were as this forum seems by a very long way the most legally 'technical' on the net (and at the same time some very heavy reading for a layman like me!) rather than the usual 'send them a CCA request and don't pay anything' response!

Many thanks

Crispy

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Haven't come across this before - in respect of what?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/ihtm28384.htm

[NS7589]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

AC is absolutely right in that any payment resets the clock

Haven't come across this before - in respect of what?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

You could always contact pt's firm.
If they take it on you know you have a good chance of succeeding-if they don't want to represent you [other than being too busy] then you will then know exactly what your options are.

Good advice, middenmiss!

[middenmess]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I would love to get counsel for my current court case - (see http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...151#post183151 )

And pt2537's suggestion to get a barrister is sound. However, I'm in a DMP and cannot afford the several £1000s a day a barrister will cost. Have I missed a trick here? Is there some way, other than Legal Aid (I don't qualify) to get represented? No Win No Fee?

You could always contact pt's firm.
If they take it on you know you have a good chance of succeeding-if they don't want to represent you [other than being too busy] then you will then know exactly what your options are.

[Crispybacon]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Hi All

Apologies for not posting on my own thread for a while, things have been very busy at work meaning 12-16 hour shifts the last couple of weeks so not been able to post much

However, means extra money which is good :tinysmile_grin_t:

Thanks for all the informative responses, as per the norm on the Beagles website I have learned more than any others put together.

For example Councils Opinion - never heard of it didn't know such a thing existed.

Public Barristers - Didn't know that either (thanks for the links Amethyst).

But theres the rub, which is as a layman, and someone who if things were to get to court, could not afford legal representation, I would have to go as LiP.

I wouldn't want to then add to the banks successes against LiP's and make others lives consequently more difficult with yet another case for creditors to quote in their favour (if I were to lose of course!!! There is always the chance that I would win but I have no false belief in my knowledge and understand that)

There is also the element of risk. AC is absolutely right in that any payment resets the clock, and I must say thank you for the reminder.

But 5 and a bit years is a loooooong time to wait for Statute Barred to kick in and for me the probability is that MBNA would produce an enforceable agreement before then (especially as it would seem that a 'reconstituted' copy is now acceptable in the courts).

As was said, my choice, and for the moment using UE has worked in my favour as it has provided leverage over MBNA to accept the DMP and freeze charges and interest.

In the context of our overall debt, the balance with MBNA is a small % but they have given us one of the largest % of harrassment and grief (with the exception of AMEX!). This was the only reason why I looked at UE in the first place, and again it has worked for us in this respect as we now do not get the threats of legal action etc.

But I am interested in everyones views and experiences, especially those that have followed through the UE route and have got to court, or have got to 6 years and the debt is now statute barred.

All the best

Crispy

[Amethyst]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Members of the Public, and commercial and non-commercial organisations are now able to instruct barristers directly on most civil matters. The Public Access page provides information on instructing members of the Bar directly. You can search the Public Access Directory to find a barrister to instruct directly.

.....................

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

What's a Public Access Barrister?

http://www.findabarrister.co.uk/more...?current_id=53

[NS7589]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

What's a Public Access Barrister?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I would love to get counsel for my current court case - (see http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...151#post183151 )

And pt2537's suggestion to get a barrister is sound. However, I'm in a DMP and cannot afford the several £1000s a day a barrister will cost. Have I missed a trick here? Is there some way, other than Legal Aid (I don't qualify) to get represented? No Win No Fee?

Advice from a Public Access Barrister would not costs £1000s. However, one does need to have the ability to do the work that a solicitor would do prior.

It is extremely difficult to obtain legal aid nowadays.

You could investigate the possibility of using a legal firm who offers no win no fee or. perhaps fixed price. But, please do not approach a CMC.

At the end of the day, all depends on your own individual case and your percentage chance of winning?

[NS7589]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I would love to get counsel for my current court case - (see http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...151#post183151 )

And pt2537's suggestion to get a barrister is sound. However, I'm in a DMP and cannot afford the several £1000s a day a barrister will cost. Have I missed a trick here? Is there some way, other than Legal Aid (I don't qualify) to get represented? No Win No Fee?

[WendyB]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

What I meant was they couldn't be sure of the outcome, until it went to Court, Counsels opinion, is not fact, it's an opinion of how they think it will go, or should go, which as I've said before, is risky at the moment as there are lots of decisions coming down which are completely wrong, apparently. And what if they can't afford Counsel's opinion? Which I would have thought most of the posters on here can't otherwise they'd seek it in the first place and not be on a self help site.

Sorry to hear you've been down this road AC, hope it turned out okay for you. Did you go to Court and win? Was it recently, since the spate of "dodgy" (for want of a better word) decisions. With the benefit of hindsight,would you do the same again, or take a different course of action?

Although I do like a gamble, as lots of people know, my mantra with the gambling is "only stake what you an afford to lose". Stakes are too high in a lot of CCA cases to take the risk of losing. So maybe I'm a play it safe sort of person at heart, I don't know.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

and that's the point, isn't it? "Could be". Which they wouldn't know until they'd been to Court and could potentially find themselves in a worse situation than they already are.

Of course, they'd know:
Counsels Opinion!


I agree completely that it's up to each member to decide but I don't agree that they should be steered along a track that is blatantly fraught with risk at the moment.

Counsel would advise and I am not attempting to steer anyone, anywhere:
Always seek specialist legal advice, that is what I advocate.

I've never been in this situation personally, not sure if you have either AC, so we're on the outside looking in, so to speak. but the below, from someone who has, and very recently too, sums it up perfectly, in my opinion.

Yes, I have.

Comments in blue

[WendyB]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Lets get this straight, WenbyB.

Factually, I do not advocate nor, encourage people to avoid paying their debts.

However, I also do not find it acceptable when some members appear to encourage the making of payments to agreements that have been or, could be deemed irredeemably unenforceable!

and that's the point, isn't it? "Could be". Which they wouldn't know until they'd been to Court and could potentially find themselves in a worse situation than they already are.

The Law is not based upon morals but upon technicalities.

yes I know this, unfortunately in the present climate, with Judgements being handed down which are widely regarded as wrong by many people, there is no guarantee that those technicalities will be interpreted in a favourable way. Most of them are not in this situation by choice and do not have a bottomless pit of money at their disposal and cannot afford to risk going to Court in order to prove a point or see which side of bed the Judge got out of that morning. Morals and principles don't pay the bills, this is (as Ed. has put so eloquently in another post somewhere) peoples lives we are discussing, real life where things that happen, happen and you can't rewind it or have an alternate ending if the one that happens is a disaster.


Thus, my view remains the same.
At the end of the day, though it is up to each and every member to decide and every case is different.

I agree completely that it's up to each member to decide but I don't agree that they should be steered along a track that is blatantly fraught with risk at the moment.

I've never been in this situation personally, not sure if you have either AC, so we're on the outside looking in, so to speak. but the below, from someone who has, and very recently too, sums it up perfectly, in my opinion.

I had a letter from MBNA nearly 2 years ago to say

"Due to archive retrieval issues your agreement is not available."

You will see from my thread that i went all the way to court with this and lost. so i still have the debt and a further £6800 in costs

So you are probably doing the right thing if you can get the interest frozen and make a payment plan at an affordable payment

weigh up the pro's and cons

1)Have a balance of £5800 at 32.6% and struggle to find the money and have all that worry, and endless phone calls. rob peter to pay paul etc

2)Accept it , negotiate and pay off a balance of £5800 at 0% £20 per month till your circumstances change for the better

3)or go to court have months of sleepless nights and 100's of hours reading the forums and have a balance of £12600 at 0% and possibly a charging order . so the worry of missing a payment and possibly loosing yourhome is greater

which would you choose?????

Thanks DJ, very succint.

[Amethyst]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Oh, and I think the Lending Code should be enforced much harder, and some more of the FH parts moved to REGULATORY in BCOBS etc.