Being very wary of CCA UE advice

[Amethyst]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

In one of our PCA market study responses to consultations we bought up the issue of allowing overdrafts (speciifically as that was the area the consultation looked at) to have a line drawn under and repayments negotiated at a sensible amount over a certain reasonable period BY CHOICE, BEFORE people got into too much trouble, charges accelerated and defaults and ccjs came into play.

This was because we saw a lot of people with overdrafts, realised things were getting tough and watching charges pile on, having a massive knock on effect, and the bank refused to do anything ''until the account goes to collections''. Allowing people to say ok stop, I'm getting in poop, I'll pay this off at £100 a month over six months, I'll pay the OD interest rate as normal, but stop with the charges (eg. reduce the OD by £100 a month until they are back to a zero balance). If something goes wrong with that then fine default me and throw DCAs at me till I bleed, but at least give me a chance to sort it before writing me off.

It hits problems legally/organisationally because the banks then want to turn it into a loan and the definition with ODs is different under CCA etc to Loans.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I didn't mention moral obligation. I was merely pointing out that the OP had chosen to pay it, so the comment about the clock ticking was un-necessary as he has chosen to pay the debt and is aware that the payments will re-affirm it.

But for what it's worth I don't agree that we should encourage people to avoid debts either.

Lets get this straight, WenbyB.

Factually, I do not advocate nor, encourage people to avoid paying their debts.

However, I also do not find it acceptable when some members appear to encourage the making of payments to agreements that have been or, could be deemed irredeemably unenforceable!

Many banks lent irresponsibly;
many banks ripped off consumers with useless PPI;
if same could not be bothered to draw up agreements correctly, as per s60 & s61, that is down to them.

Let us also not lose sight of the Unfair Relationships Test as per the CCA 2006

The Law is not based upon morals but upon technicalities.

Thus, my view remains the same.

At the end of the day, though it is up to each and every member to decide and every case is different.

[jumper999]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I didn't mention moral obligation. I was merely pointing out that the OP had chosen to pay it, so the comment about the clock ticking was un-necessary as he has chosen to pay the debt and is aware that the payments will re-affirm it.

But for what it's worth I don't agree that we should encourage people to avoid debts either.

Also for what it's worth we should encourage the lenders to accept payments when people are in debts, that way saving a lot time pulling out your nails thinking of what to do next.

:tung:

[Amethyst]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Indeed DJ, Sometimes self preservation has to outweigh everything, and if that ends up coming down on the 'moral' side of things, so be it.

[Differentjudge]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I had a letter from MBNA nearly 2 years ago to say

"Due to archive retrieval issues your agreement is not available."

You will see from my thread that i went all the way to court with this and lost. so i still have the debt and a further £6800 in costs

So you are probably doing the right thing if you can get the interest frozen and make a payment plan at an affordable payment

weigh up the pro's and cons

1)Have a balance of £5800 at 32.6% and struggle to find the money and have all that worry, and endless phone calls. rob peter to pay paul etc

2)Accept it , negotiate and pay off a balance of £5800 at 0% £20 per month till your circumstances change for the better

3)or go to court have months of sleepless nights and 100's of hours reading the forums and have a balance of £12600 at 0% and possibly a charging order . so the worry of missing a payment and possibly loosing yourhome is greater

which would you choose?????

[pt2537]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

the CCA provides that payment can be made by consent but withdrawal of that consent gives rise to no liabilitys

[WendyB]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I didn't mention moral obligation. I was merely pointing out that the OP had chosen to pay it, so the comment about the clock ticking was un-necessary as he has chosen to pay the debt and is aware that the payments will re-affirm it.

But for what it's worth I don't agree that we should encourage people to avoid debts either.

[pt2537]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Nor did the HOL in Wilson, Dimond etc

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

???

However, I did state to the OP:
"Your Choice".

Sorry, WendyB but I do not follow the, moral obligation Carp!

[WendyB]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Your choice, of course but remember every payment made re-affirms the debt;
set the clock ticking again...

but Crispy is not trying to avoid the debt or wait for it to become SB, he has chosen to pay it.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Hi All

Thanks very much for the replies and taking time to look at the CCA its much appreciated.



Thanks Amethyst. TBH I have absolutely no idea what the document consisted of and DW cannot remember either as it was such a long time ago.

The agreement was taken out in 1998 so I was surprised they even got this much! You're right it was an old A&L card which was taken over by MBNA several years ago.

I'm pleased now we have offered (and started making) payments with DW's DMP even though it is currently unenforceable, as if they could come back with a reconstructed agreement it would give us less leverage if we had not been trying to be reasonable in getting this situation sorted out.

Thanks again Beagles for helping out.

All the best

Crispy

Your choice, of course but remember every payment made re-affirms the debt;
set the clock ticking again...

[Crispybacon]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Hi All

Thanks very much for the replies and taking time to look at the CCA its much appreciated.

I am assuming this was a four page leaflet of something as on the second page (declaration page) it says agree to the terms overleaf, and obviously if this was on the reverse of the page where you filled in name and address etc, theres no terms overleaf, so think this must have had something else on the reverse of both those documents, and those two pages were in the middle (I'm so crap at explaining but like an A3 sheet folded into make 4 pages)

Thanks Amethyst. TBH I have absolutely no idea what the document consisted of and DW cannot remember either as it was such a long time ago.

The agreement was taken out in 1998 so I was surprised they even got this much! You're right it was an old A&L card which was taken over by MBNA several years ago.

I'm pleased now we have offered (and started making) payments with DW's DMP even though it is currently unenforceable, as if they could come back with a reconstructed agreement it would give us less leverage if we had not been trying to be reasonable in getting this situation sorted out.

Thanks again Beagles for helping out.

All the best

Crispy

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...ds-638571.html

[Amethyst]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

I know.

Depending on the date, there is a thread somewheres abouts about when MBNA took on A&L's cards business, which might be of assistance later.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Being very wary of CCA UE advice

Yep no prescribed terms.

I am assuming this was a four page leaflet of something as on the second page (declaration page) it says agree to the terms overleaf, and obviously if this was on the reverse of the page where you filled in name and address etc, theres no terms overleaf, so think this must have had something else on the reverse of both those documents, and those two pages were in the middle (I'm so crap at explaining but like an A3 sheet folded into make 4 pages)

So unenforceable as it stands, but all they would have to do is recreate what was on the reverse of that declaration page to make it enforceable (assuming that that was the T&Cs with the prescribed terms in).

The correct (inception) T&C's, A!

MBNA, would also have to supply the terms as varied.

What was the date of application?