Is this enforceable??

[Babs]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Can this thread be closed now please?

[leclerc]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Can this thread be closed now please?

We rarely close threads on here but can you clarify the situation please because understanding the full picture may help....

[Babs]

Re: Is this enforceable??

The result of all this is that you now have a claim issued against you which will more than likely end with a CCJ against you, an order to make repayments for the money you borrowed and possibly costs awarded against you and all because they cannot supply you with a piece of paper to which you are legally entitled.

That piece of paper to which I am legally entitled is known as a Credit Card Agreement,
which I have never had sight of.I think that is grounds enough for defence.
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You could have sued for your information by issuing a claim for non-compliance of the DPA, including a small sum of money to make it a moneyclaim and this would have forced them to supply your data to you.
Why would I part with more money if I could get the same outcome with £1,doesnt make sense LOL.
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So in conclusion, HFC’s morals aside and unenforceable or not, what do you hope that the outcome from this will be? What a stupid question! What do you think most people on this forum want.

[enaid]

Re: Is this enforceable??

[quote=Babs;167948]The result of all this is that you now have a claim issued against you which will more than likely end with a CCJ against you, an order to make repayments for the money you borrowed and possibly costs awarded against you and all because they cannot supply you with a piece of paper to which you are legally entitled.

That piece of paper to which I am legally entitled is known as a Credit Card Agreement,
which I have never had sight of.I think that is grounds enough for defence.

Maybe, only a Judge would decide that in the end.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
You could have sued for your information by issuing a claim for non-compliance of the DPA, including a small sum of money to make it a moneyclaim and this would have forced them to supply your data to you.
Why would I part with more money if I could get the same outcome with £1,doesnt make sense LOL.


The claim for non-complaince would force them to provide all the data they hold on you, that would have included all the statements to show if there was indeed PPI on this account. is that not what you wanted to find out?
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So in conclusion, HFC’s morals aside and unenforceable or not, what do you hope that the outcome from this will be? What a stupid question! What do you think most people on this forum want.[/quote.

It was a valid question imo and what most people want from this forum is help that will give them the best possible outcome to thier particular problem and not advice that will leave them worse off than they were before they asked for help.

[Babs]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Maybe, only a Judge would decide that in the end. Excuse me but a Judge does not decide if I defend.
The claim for non-complaince would force them to provide all the data they hold on you, that would have included all the statements to show if there was indeed PPI on this account. is that not what you wanted to find out? Much easier to go the CCA route and wait for SAR I had alredy paid £10 for.

It was a valid question imo and what most people want from this forum is help that will give them the best possible outcome to thier particular problem and not advice that will leave them worse off than they were before they asked for help. Yeah right. LOL.

[enaid]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Well Babs you have it in your head that you are right I wish you luck, I think you will need it.
The reply 'Yeah right. LOL.' I find uncalled for and very rude, if you believe that people on here would willingly give out advice that would cause more problems for people then you are very wrong indeed.

[Babs]

Re: Is this enforceable??

The reply 'Yeah right. LOL.' I find uncalled for and very rude, if you believe that people on here would willingly give out advice that would cause more problems for people then you are very wrong indeed. The reply Yeah Right was not at all about advise,if you read post 64 its about the outcome. I am not rude.

[leclerc]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Edited having re read the entirety of the thread.
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Sent Babs.

Basa, yep point taken, my apologies - the copy agreement you have Babs as it stands is unenforceable and you are right to ask for the true copy with the correct rates etc in to enable you to defend correctly. I do think the defence you are entering needs more personalisation to your actual circumstances and the actual claim submitted.

Babs, please ignore my questions because you need to go from the above post by Amethyst, since that would appear to be a rational point to go from. I'm now editing my questions out because posts after this are simply going backwards and forwards and I think Amethyst probably knows more about your case than myself. The bit in bold is specifically the advice that has been given. Once you have then you might want to speak to Amethyst either via PM or via email.

[shell]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Sorry to stick my nose in here, will probably get my knuckles rapped, but here goes.

Babs, I'm a bit confused, you asked for help, got help, didn't like the help, so decided to be rude to people?

Answering "baaaa" to peoples advice, what was that about? I'm not easily shocked, but found that unbelievably rude. In fact I was embarrassed for you.

Sorry folks, just had to say that as I couldn't believe what I was reading.

[leclerc]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Sorry to stick my nose in here, will probably get my knuckles rapped, but here goes.

Babs, I'm a bit confused, you asked for help, got help, didn't like the help, so decided to be rude to people?
With respect, words on a page and how they are read can seem different. Remember the poster has been on CAG where sometimes they scoff at rational posts.
Answering "baaaa" to peoples advice, what was that about? I'm not easily shocked, but found that unbelievably rude. In fact I was embarrassed for you.
The "baaa" posts were edited from previous posts that had drawn what the OP believed was a direct attack at them.
Sorry folks, just had to say that as I couldn't believe what I was reading.

Please see above.
With regards to the legal defence to the claim, you may have a job with regards to the fact that it is bundled up as an overdraft and CCA issues. You might defend the CCA elements but the big issue will be defending the overdraft charges because the OFT test case threw a huge spanner in the works. Recent European Case law(see budgie's post) might help you with a more fuller defence and make sure you see Scrivener's opinion on bank charges claims as well because that is why Amethyst is saying to make it personal to you. If you template a defence then you will lose but if you personalise it then it makes it more about you than about a generic template(hope that makes sense).

[basa48]

Re: Is this enforceable??

I have to say I'm quite confused.

Here we have a member with a totally, in fact non existent, loan agreement and everyone is saying she is still going to get a CCJ against her.

I am definitely missing something here or we should all just give up and go home since there is no need for the CCA and its Regs.

In fact any old CCC or DCA can invent whatever agreement it likes (it doesn't even need a sig) any old DN (don't need to bother with the correct dates or amount). Just bang off a claim and the judge will sort it for them!!!!

[leclerc]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Part of their claim if you read page 1 relates to a bank account overdraft so we might have a partially defendable claim but judges may look at the rationale of I took a loan and then stopped paying because the lender couldn't provide a copy of the agreement even though I spent the dough. Legally, they should look at the law but sometimes they appear to follow the logic I have given.

[basa48]

Re: Is this enforceable??

................Legally, they should look at the law but sometimes they appear to follow the logic I have given.

WTF!!! I thought that was a judges whole purpose to interpret the letter of the LAW not their morals or sympathies for the banks.

Like I said in my last post, if the law boils down to where a judges sympathies lie, we can all give up and go home. There is no need for the Act or its Regs they become meaningless. I would go so far as to say the banks could make up fictitious agreements and sue any Tom, Dick or Harriet for money they never even had!!!!

[Babs]

Re: Is this enforceable??

I have to say I'm quite confused.

Here we have a member with a totally, in fact non existent, loan agreement and everyone is saying she is still going to get a CCJ against her.

I am definitely missing something here or we should all just give up and go home since there is no need for the CCA and its Regs.

In fact any old CCC or DCA can invent whatever agreement it likes (it doesn't even need a sig) any old DN (don't need to bother with the correct dates or amount). Just bang off a claim and the judge will sort it for them!!!!

Thankyou Basa, There seem to be a lot of comments on this thread where people clearly have not read it from the beginning. Its nice to have a friendly comment.
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Please see above.
With regards to the legal defence to the claim, you may have a job with regards to the fact that it is bundled up as an overdraft and CCA issues. You might defend the CCA elements but the big issue will be defending the overdraft charges because the OFT test case threw a huge spanner in the works. Recent European Case law(see budgie's post) might help you with a more fuller defence and make sure you see Scrivener's opinion on bank charges claims as well because that is why Amethyst is saying to make it personal to you. If you template a defence then you will lose but if you personalise it then it makes it more about you than about a generic template(hope that makes sense).

You see what I mean,where on earth did the overdraft come from??? I have no overdraft.......................

[leclerc]

Re: Is this enforceable??

You see what I mean,where on earth did the overdraft come from??? I have no overdraft.......................

Read Amethyst's post on page 1(since I was trying to get the thread back on topic but clearly misread Amethyst's post on page 1). The problem is that he basic picture has been so unclear. We either have to read your thread on CAG or ask questions here.

Can you summarise the chronology of the case so that finally a full picture can be determined, ie start middle and current situation.

The facts that I think I have is a loan of £2000.00 taken out.
Payments to it continued, no arrears, until CCA request sent in due to failure of them to supply a SAR. Is that part right?

The next bit I'm not 100% clear on. PPI on the £2000.00 loan or was that not correct?

Currently, lender has sent you a claim form for monies outstanding plus costs but agreement they have sent you is unenforceable so you are defending on the basis that the CCA is unenforceable. is that right?