Is this enforceable??

[Amethyst]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Okay

Amex v Brandon appeal ( Legal Beagles Consumer Forum ) specifically para 15,16 and 20 (let me know if you cant view on that link and I'll pm it you) and also Kneale v Barclaycard July 2010 (on Bailli) - Just a couple of recent cases which may be of interest.

[Babs]

Re: Is this enforceable??

baaaaa

[basa48]

Re: Is this enforceable??

...... - do you want to try defending this on grounds of unenforceability (although I think you are on a hiding to nothing with that in the long run to be honest) ............
Ame

xx

Where does that come from? An 'agreement with no sig or interest rates - if that's not unenforceable what is?

[leclerc]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Hi Wendy, The reason for the CCA request was because they were taking sooooo long with SAR for several accounts. We wanted to check on PPI,and I am glad we did as we had two accounts refunded after taking it to FOS.
The agreement supplied for this account is blank and does not fulfil my requirements. I am assuming you mean the legal requirements, right?
Payments were up to date with no arrears.

With the SAR they have 40 days so did you chase up the SAR and ask them what the delay was? Did you make a complaint to the ICO re the SAR?

[Babs]

Re: Is this enforceable??

baaaaaaaaa

[Amethyst]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Sent Babs.

Basa, yep point taken, my apologies - the copy agreement you have Babs as it stands is unenforceable and you are right to ask for the true copy with the correct rates etc in to enable you to defend correctly. I do think the defence you are entering needs more personalisation to your actual circumstances and the actual claim submitted.

[Amy]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Where does that come from? An 'agreement with no sig or interest rates - if that's not unenforceable what is?

Morally unenforceable or legally unenforceable?

The two are very different.

[Babs]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Where were HFC's morals when charging extortionate interest rates and robbing customers with their PPI.
I have a legal right to see the document.

[Amy]

Re: Is this enforceable??

This is how I am seeing your situation:-

You requested a Subject Access Request on your account in order to ascertain if there had been any PPI added and because this was not forthcoming, you then requested your agreement under the CCA. When a properly completed agreement did not materialise you then stopped paying anything towards the loan.

The loan was for less than £2k and at the time you ceased to make payments, you had no arrears.

You could have sued for your information by issuing a claim for non-compliance of the DPA, including a small sum of money to make it a moneyclaim and this would have forced them to supply your data to you.

You have had PPI repaid on two accounts, but I am not clear if this is including any PPI on this loan.

The result of all this is that you now have a claim issued against you which will more than likely end with a CCJ against you, an order to make repayments for the money you borrowed and possibly costs awarded against you and all because they cannot supply you with a piece of paper to which you are legally entitled. Are HFC not legally entitled to have their money repaid?

If a properly executed agreement had have materialised at the time, what would you have done? Would you have resumed your payments?

Amethyst’s post at #44 clarifies very succinctly the situation you find yourself in.

So in conclusion, HFC’s morals aside and unenforceable or not, what do you hope that the outcome from this will be?

[Babs]

Re: Is this enforceable??

You requested a Subject Access Request on your account in order to ascertain if there had been any PPI added and because this was not forthcoming, you then requested your agreement under the CCA. When a properly completed agreement did not materialise you then stopped paying anything towards the loan. SAR was requested in Aug 2009,after endless chasing I still did not receive it,so CCA's sent for several accounts. SAR did not arrive until Nov 2009. The purpose of the SAR was to show PPI for which I had been paying since 1998 on a closed account. This has since been refunded,but I think I am in a position where I need to see exactly what was on this agreement.

The loan was for less than £2k and at the time you ceased to make payments, you had no arrears. YES

Are HFC not legally entitled to have their money repaid? Yes and so am I!!!

The result of all this is that you now have a claim issued against you which will more than likely end with a CCJ against you A bit judgemental on your part dont you think ?

If a properly executed agreement had have materialised at the time, what would you have done? Would you have resumed your payments? YES

[WendyB]

Re: Is this enforceable??

I think a bit of a reality check is needed here.
You've had the PPi on this account refunded, so that's good.

In the meantime, because of the lack of a signed, enforceable CCA, you have stopped paying, are now in arrears, and have a claim issued against you. I don't necessary think Amy is being judgemental, more realistic really. What if they do actually produce an enforceable CCA? Or a reconstructed one, saying "this is what it would have looked like" and the Judge says, oh okay then, pay them, and issues an order?

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you are entitled to have your money repaid? Why are you? You did actually borrow the money in the first place, you have already had the PPI back, so what exactly do you want repaying? And why should it be repaid, after all, you did borrow it, so should you not pay it back?

I think that this is all a bit out of hand, to be honest. If you do end up with a CCJ it will have more of an impact on your credit rating than the default already has, and will stay there for 6 years. Unless you can be absolutley ceretain that you can win this case, then perhaps it might be better to make an offer to pay by instalments and get the case discontinued?

[Babs]

Re: Is this enforceable??

The reality is I have not had PPI refunded on this account. Why are all you women so anti. Holyer than thou attitude,I wish I had never asked for help,and there it ends.

[Amy]

Re: Is this enforceable??

The purpose of the SAR was to show PPI for which I had been paying since 1998 on a closed account. This has since been refunded,but I think I am in a position where I need to see exactly what was on this agreement.

The reality is I have not had PPI refunded on this account. Why are all you women so anti. Holyer than thou attitude,I wish I had never asked for help,and there it ends.

This is where the confusion is then and the fact of the matter is we are trying to help you, but if you are not prepared for every eventuality and would prefer the sugar-coated version then so be it.

You still have not answered the final sentence of my previous post. What do you want and expect the outcome to be?

[leclerc]

Re: Is this enforceable??

The reality is I have not had PPI refunded on this account. Why are all you women so anti. Holyer than thou attitude,I wish I had never asked for help,and there it ends.

Then there is an issue with the clarity of the post. So to clarify it.
On the account that you are disputing, is there any PPI on the account and is a claim ongoing? Roughly how much is left on the Loan to pay and roughly how much would the refund of PPI cover?
I think Amy is being straight to the point on some of the issues but if NO PPI has been refunded can you clarify that because it will help to make the picture clear because their answers show that we are getting pieces of the jigsaw yet are not quite understanding where all the pieces fit.

We have one loan roughly 2k.
We have unenforceable agreement
We have PPI not refunded(is there a claim in?)
How much is left on the loan and how much is the PPI worth?

[WendyB]

Re: Is this enforceable??

Sorry, I must have misunderstood, thought you had had the PPI refunded.

I still stand by the rest of my post though.
Might have been easier to pursue the PPI claim than stop paying and cite unenforceable. But that's all water under the bridge now isn't it. Although it's not too late to deal with this then claim the PPI at a later date.

Anti? I think you'll find we are anti helping you to get into a worse situation than you are already. Holier than thou?? Well if that's what you wish to believe so be it.