Barclays partnership finance PCP dispute

[R0b]

I'm out and about at the moment but I'm flabbergasted that they still seem to think that the contract wasnt terminated because you refused to sign their paperwork.

Really it's yoir choice what you want to do but I dont think they have a leg to stand on. Do you have a copy of the contract all of the terms? If you do can you upload it?

[LBoot1694]

Hi Rob,

i will have yes. I’ll find that out later on and upload it ASAP. It’s funny how they’re saying their letter before action still stands, without actually giving me a deadline now (it’s passed their previous deadline) so are they saying let’s just keep arguing?

[R0b]

Thanks I'll take a look when I can but theres two lines of argument, section 99 is an indefensible right to terminate without limitation, and if they refused to process your VT it's a repudiatory breach in which case there is some case law somewhere I'll try to dif it out where as a result of a repudiatory breach the court ordered that the car be transferred in the name of the debtor

[LBoot1694]

Hi Rob,

i cant find this contract anywhere - can I request a new one from anywhere?

Thanks

[LBoot1694]

Hi Rob,

do you know roughly when i will have to respond to them by? I haven’t received any further correspondence.

Thanks

[R0b]

Well they did say that they would issue proceedings if not paid, so I would have expected them to have begun that process already. That's not to say they aren't but I suspect your reasons and counterclaim might have given them cause for concern, particularly as they failed to address your points about being notified and the longer time goes by, it seems like an empty threat.

You can make a request for the agreement under section 77 of the CCA by enclosing a £1 cheque or postal order. They have 12 working days (+2 days for delivery of letter) to provide you with a copy otherwise they can't enforce the agreement. I have an example template which you can find by clicking here although you may need to amend the title from Fixed Sum Loan to the type of agreement you have and needs to be sent to the finance co.

I would probably allow until the end of the month before responding to the solicitors and then ask them to confirm if they are going to issue proceedings.

[LBoot1694]

Hi Rob,

Still had no further correspondence from them. Should I respond to their email, advising I’m still sticking to that in which I said previously? Interestingly, I’ve just checked my credit file, and the loan has now gone to ‘settled’. Which means they’ve taken note of something?!

[R0b]

I don't think you need to respond advising that your position remains the same. You could ask that they have failed to respond to the points made in your previous letter and you are seeking a specific response.

You can also send DWF the Torts notice and I would also send a copy to BPF as well so they can't say they never received it.

Good news on the credit file side of things, it's really frustrating and BPF should be on top of this as one day it will come back to bite them when someone chooses to issue legal proceedings and seek compensation - there's no excuse for it really.

[LBoot1694]

Hi Rob,

This has just got a little bit further complex.

So, I allowed ‘A’ to drive this car to get to work. I consequently signed the car over to them, so I wasn’t not liable for speeding/parking fines just in case. The car was never sold to them.

They lives with me - before a relationship breakdown meant they left the property, taking my car with them. They’ve always refused to give it back and always said they only way it’ll be moved from their drive is if Barclays collect it (so I terminated the agreement, as you know).

However, they’ve since contacted DWF solicitors advising them that they BOUGHT the vehicle from me (this is the least I expected to be honest). However, DWF have given them, in my oppinion, too much information. They haven’t actually spoken to the registered keeper of this vehicle - they’ve spoken to their mum (I know, ridiculous!). They’ve disclosed that:

They are involved with myselr and BPF.

The case is on hold pending further information (which is something I wasn’t even aware of)

They have never issued any letter for the return of the vehicle.

There will be absolutely no no evidence that the vehicle was purchased - there is transactions from our bank accounts, however we were living in the same house and setting one up for the first time - So some of it is within the thousands.


dwf are now throwing at me I’ve breached my contact again and this is how they’re planning on getting the car back from me. They’re advising they’re just waiting for a court order, which doesn’t make sense - they don’t need one, I’ve told them to collect the vehicle, I’m not holding it away from them.

Any ideas on how to approach it now?

Its all just just turned into such a mess

[R0b]

Morning,

I'll get back to you today once I've have a full read of your post but from skimming it, doesn't look good for you.

[LBoot1694]

Thanks, Rob.

I wondered if it would be 2 separate issues and the one with DWF would still stand (I can’t see how they will ever evidence they’ve bought that vehicle, it’s me signing it over that’s the issue, which is a breach of contract as I understand now from reading up.

And the the person making the allegation would need to take me to court to try and evidence they bought it?

[R0b]

Okay, so I've had a good read through your post so let's look at it in stages.

1. As a reminder, you do not own the vehicle at any time until all payments have been made under the agreement. As you have exercised your right to VT the agreement, you are responsible for looking after it until it has been collected. With that in mind, I'm not sure why you signed the car over to A (I presume you mean that you transferred the V5C to A?) when you could have simply just allowed A to use the vehicle (taking the risk that unless you have permission from the lender, you aren't allowed to drive it).

There was no need to transfer the V5C to A and whilst I appreciate you didn't want to get any parking tickets etc. you could put something in writing to set out on what basis A is allowed to use the car. As you've now realised, you have put yourself in a rather sticky situation with no evidence to prove what has and hasn't been agreed.

2. I suspect that A might be arguing that the car was bought perhaps on the basis that A can rely on some legislation that says if a vehicle is bought in good faith and without knowledge that it was on finance, then the lender has no right to recover the carI'm not so sure DWF can argue you have breach the contract when in fact the contract has already been terminated via the VT process. However, they could probably argue that you are liable for wrongful interference with goods by conversion i.e. you have given the car away when you had no permission to do so. As it stands, I don't think you have a leg to stand on in relation to owing the lender, either the return of the car or the market value at the time of termination. Even if DWF succeed in recovering the car, you'll be on the on the hook for any damage caused to it as it was your responsibility to look after it.

3. You are right that there would be 2 separate claims to this: (1) lender claims against you and (2) you claim against A. If DWF issue a claim, that could probably be dealt with in one single hearing where you would counterclaim against A and bring A into the mix. The judge would then have to determine whether or not based on the facts that you sold the car to A - based on what you've said, A would need to prove what and how much was paid, though it doesn't help that you've transferred the V5C to A which is a schoolboy error and i'm sure you'll learn from it next time.

I'm slightly confused by DWF saying they are waiting for a court order and you might want to clarify whether an application has been submitted already and, if one has, whether that was a without notice application or not - without notice means what it says, that you don't get notified of the application but for something like this, that would be risky for DWF to do when there is probably no need to submit a without notice application.

As a means of trying to get the car back, you could report it stolen to the police, that you initially agreed for it to be used but is now refusing to hand it back and so it needs to be reported as stolen i.e. theft. The police might fob you off and say it is a civil matter but you should stick to your guns and make a complaint if they don't act on it. Difficulty with this route is that the V5C isn't in your name, though you could provide a copy of the HP agreement confirming the details of the vehicle and that it belongs to the lender.

I think I've covered everything but all in all, it's a real big mess.

[LBoot1694]

Hi rob,

just ti clarify, I signed it over to them around a year before I terminated the agreement. Our relationship broke down in the February, as I terminated it May 2018, as I was left paying for it and they would not allow me to have it back.

In simplest terms, I was doing them a favour whilst we were living together and when it all went wrong - it was used as a way to get at me really as they knew I was in a horrible situation, financially, especially as I’d found out 12 weeks prior that a baby was on the way. I asked numerous times for them to prove payment to do me and advised I would settle the payment with BPF it that was in fact the case, they’ve refused to do so, because there’s no evidence. There’s no way they can get away with saying that they were unable of it’s finance, they were living in my house for starts and they’ve also messaged me advising they knew about the finance.

I’ve put in a complaint to DWF in regards to the solicitor who gave A’s mother the advice as I’m rather concerned it consistures to a confidentiality breach, they are yet to respond with an appropriate answer as they advised it was a data protection breach as they’d spoken to the registered keeper, which is false. The information they’ve given out has left me in a rather awful situation.

Ive contacted the police previously, they weren’t interested as you anticipated. I can raise it again though if you feel it will be beneficial.

Im not sure where to go then - do I continue to argue with DWF? I haven’t once said they can’t collect the vehicle, I told them where it was in the termination letter and I’ve told them again recently. They’re choosing not to do so.

[LBoot1694]

Hi rob,

i have requested an outline of what they’re actually planning to do - the solicitor directly involved has responded advising that they are awaiting instruction from their client on the next steps to take, I feel this is taking them a while to be honest.

No mention about the signing over of the vehicle, no response in regards to my complaint of a data breach either.

I honestly feel im best just squaring the balloon payment and getting it over with as it’s causing me way too much stress. Would I then own the vehicle if I was to do that?

[R0b]

Generally, there are provisions in the HP agreement that says you can't sign the V5C over to anyone and in doing so will amount to a breach of contract with possible consequences of termination. I'm still not sure why you didn't just add that person as a named driver or even get that person to take out their own insurance on the car, but we are where we are.

I'm not really sure what exactly it is that you want to argue about with DWF? You've transferred the V5C into someone else's name and you have allowed them to use the car. You are responsible for it and for ensuring that it is returned to the lender, so I don't think you can argue your way out of this one. As for the data breach, not sure if there is actually a data breach at all and I certainly can't see any breach of confidentiality unless you can explain to me why you think this is the case?

The Data Protection Act 2018 provides for certain exemptions where the GDPR provisions do not apply. One of those exemptions is that the GDPR does not apply to personal data where disclosure:-

(a) is necessary for the purpose of, or in connection with, legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings),

(b) is necessary for the purpose of obtaining legal advice, or

(c) is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights.

The fact that the lender has chosen to engage a firm of solicitors and they have then discussed the matter with a third party (not sure what data, if any has been disclosed?) which is relevant to a legal claim, is likely to be exempt from any obligation under the GDPR.

If you do re-pay the outstanding balance then ownership of the car should be transferred into your name, and you would be wise to confirm in writing with DWF in relation to that, in case they have other ideas. You are then left with the issue that "A" still has the car but assuming you are the owner, you will then need to argue that you only gave A use of the car, and did not sell it as A suggests. More likely than not, a claim will need to be issued against A.