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Barclays partnership finance PCP dispute

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  • LBoot1694
    started a topic Barclays partnership finance PCP dispute

    Barclays partnership finance PCP dispute

    Hi,

    i temrinated a PCP agreement on 21st May 2018. This was acknowledged and I received a response from Barclays on 1st June 2018 advising that I owed £0, but they had sent a pre written termination agreement on the overleaf which basically manipulated my legal rights as a consumer. Therefore, I obviously didnít sign it.
    My temrination letter advised that I was ending the agreement and it gave them the address and 14 days to collect the car.


    Without getting too personal, I had some pregnancy issues and remained in hospital for quite a significant amount of time, to which my son was born and he then stayed in hospital due to ill health, therefore it wasnít really a priority of mine.

    Therefore, this has literally been the last thing on my mind. However, I received a letter the other day from DWF solicitors who advised that I had failed to rectify a breach (tax and insurance) on the vehicle and that Barclays had ended the agreement on 11th December 2018 and that they were advising signed the paper work to have the car repossessed.

    Ive responded, advising that I have fulfilled my legal obligations (they outlined these themselves their response letter that I was obliged to pay 50% of the total amount payable) and that I was unhappy with the marker on my credit file, further advising them that this was a breach of principle D of the GDPR regulations, as the information was inaccurate. Iíve advised that they come and collect the car still and Iím holding my stance with them, but I just wondered if I was in my rights to do this?

    Thanks in advance.
    Tags: None

  • LBoot1694
    replied
    Here it is - Iím really confused.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • LBoot1694
    replied
    Hi Rob,

    so ive has some correspondence from DWF today. Bizarrely, they havenít mentioned the signing over of the vehicle!?

    Theyve said they terminated the agreement because I let the account go into arrears - Iíll post the letter in a second. Thatís now their reasoning for wanting payment from me in the next 14 days, and theyíve sent the voluntary surrender form again.

    Theyve advised they they made a Ďclerical errorí in the previous letter.

    Leave a comment:


  • LBoot1694
    replied
    Hi Rob,

    I think I will just contact them and pay the 4K in full instead. Not that I have that kind of money laying around however I will sort something.

    Im still to hear from them, which I find a bit weird, they were giving the information over 3 weeks ago now. When I emailed the solicitor involved with the case, he made no comment on that information he had received and just advised he was waiting for instructions from his client still.

    I havent had a response about my complaint RE confidentiality, after they wrongly suggested theyíd spoken to the current registered keeper of the vehicle. They hadnít spoken to the registered keeper at all - theyíd spoken to his mother. I feel itís pretty poor if anyone in the country can contact them and they are able confirm theyíre in a legal dispute with me at the very least. She has no involvement with this vehicle.

    I will email them and ask what theyre wanting from me in order to settle it with them and go from there and keep the forum updated.

    Thanks for all your help itís been wholly appreciated.

    Leave a comment:


  • R0b
    replied
    That's a question only you can decide and not one of us on here. We all make mistakes and we learn from them, so I'm sure if you are ever in this situation again, you are not likely to go about it in the same way.

    Just one thing to bear in mind, if the lender does look to taking you to court over it and the judge finds in favour of the lender, you only have one month from the date of the judgment to pay the amount otherwise you will have a CCJ on your credit file for the next 6 years. If you can't afford to pay the judgment amount (which will include court fee costs of a few hundred pounds but if over £10k then it will likely include legal costs on top), you might be wise approaching them and coming to a repayment plan.

    FCA rules dictate that lenders can't force you to pay the outstanding amount in one lump sum as that would go against their obligations. You could stall things somewhat by putting in a formal complaint if they don't accept your offer which needs to be reasonable and means you have further time to look at what arrangements could be made.

    Leave a comment:


  • LBoot1694
    replied
    I just guess love does craziest things to us to be honest.

    Im not really sure why I did that. I remember a conversation about insurance and it being more expensive for him if I didnít sign it over, which resulted in them not being able to get work. Just absolutely stupid basically. To be honest with you, it had not even really occurred to me that I had done that until more recently. Iím looking through text messages etc now to see what Iíve got going back that far.

    I donít know whether itís worth the court stress to at least try and explain that Iíve never sold it and get it settled that way, or to just pay it off get BPF off my back and argue it more privately. This isnít the first thing thatís going before a judge in relation to this individual so maybe I should just Ďadd it oní that way.

    I will update the forum so others are able to see the outcome and how I managed it. However, I can imagine Iím going to be significantly out of pocket for the next few years - which I suppose is better than whatís happening now.

    Leave a comment:


  • R0b
    replied
    Generally, there are provisions in the HP agreement that says you can't sign the V5C over to anyone and in doing so will amount to a breach of contract with possible consequences of termination. I'm still not sure why you didn't just add that person as a named driver or even get that person to take out their own insurance on the car, but we are where we are.

    I'm not really sure what exactly it is that you want to argue about with DWF? You've transferred the V5C into someone else's name and you have allowed them to use the car. You are responsible for it and for ensuring that it is returned to the lender, so I don't think you can argue your way out of this one. As for the data breach, not sure if there is actually a data breach at all and I certainly can't see any breach of confidentiality unless you can explain to me why you think this is the case?

    The Data Protection Act 2018 provides for certain exemptions where the GDPR provisions do not apply. One of those exemptions is that the GDPR does not apply to personal data where disclosure:-

    (a) is necessary for the purpose of, or in connection with, legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings),

    (b) is necessary for the purpose of obtaining legal advice, or

    (c) is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights.

    The fact that the lender has chosen to engage a firm of solicitors and they have then discussed the matter with a third party (not sure what data, if any has been disclosed?) which is relevant to a legal claim, is likely to be exempt from any obligation under the GDPR.

    If you do re-pay the outstanding balance then ownership of the car should be transferred into your name, and you would be wise to confirm in writing with DWF in relation to that, in case they have other ideas. You are then left with the issue that "A" still has the car but assuming you are the owner, you will then need to argue that you only gave A use of the car, and did not sell it as A suggests. More likely than not, a claim will need to be issued against A.

    Leave a comment:


  • LBoot1694
    replied
    Hi rob,

    i have requested an outline of what theyíre actually planning to do - the solicitor directly involved has responded advising that they are awaiting instruction from their client on the next steps to take, I feel this is taking them a while to be honest.

    No mention about the signing over of the vehicle, no response in regards to my complaint of a data breach either.

    I honestly feel im best just squaring the balloon payment and getting it over with as itís causing me way too much stress. Would I then own the vehicle if I was to do that?

    Leave a comment:


  • LBoot1694
    replied
    Hi rob,

    just ti clarify, I signed it over to them around a year before I terminated the agreement. Our relationship broke down in the February, as I terminated it May 2018, as I was left paying for it and they would not allow me to have it back.

    In simplest terms, I was doing them a favour whilst we were living together and when it all went wrong - it was used as a way to get at me really as they knew I was in a horrible situation, financially, especially as Iíd found out 12 weeks prior that a baby was on the way. I asked numerous times for them to prove payment to do me and advised I would settle the payment with BPF it that was in fact the case, theyíve refused to do so, because thereís no evidence. Thereís no way they can get away with saying that they were unable of itís finance, they were living in my house for starts and theyíve also messaged me advising they knew about the finance.

    Iíve put in a complaint to DWF in regards to the solicitor who gave Aís mother the advice as Iím rather concerned it consistures to a confidentiality breach, they are yet to respond with an appropriate answer as they advised it was a data protection breach as theyíd spoken to the registered keeper, which is false. The information theyíve given out has left me in a rather awful situation.

    Ive contacted the police previously, they werenít interested as you anticipated. I can raise it again though if you feel it will be beneficial.

    Im not sure where to go then - do I continue to argue with DWF? I havenít once said they canít collect the vehicle, I told them where it was in the termination letter and Iíve told them again recently. Theyíre choosing not to do so.

    Leave a comment:


  • R0b
    replied
    Okay, so I've had a good read through your post so let's look at it in stages.

    1. As a reminder, you do not own the vehicle at any time until all payments have been made under the agreement. As you have exercised your right to VT the agreement, you are responsible for looking after it until it has been collected. With that in mind, I'm not sure why you signed the car over to A (I presume you mean that you transferred the V5C to A?) when you could have simply just allowed A to use the vehicle (taking the risk that unless you have permission from the lender, you aren't allowed to drive it).

    There was no need to transfer the V5C to A and whilst I appreciate you didn't want to get any parking tickets etc. you could put something in writing to set out on what basis A is allowed to use the car. As you've now realised, you have put yourself in a rather sticky situation with no evidence to prove what has and hasn't been agreed.

    2. I suspect that A might be arguing that the car was bought perhaps on the basis that A can rely on some legislation that says if a vehicle is bought in good faith and without knowledge that it was on finance, then the lender has no right to recover the carI'm not so sure DWF can argue you have breach the contract when in fact the contract has already been terminated via the VT process. However, they could probably argue that you are liable for wrongful interference with goods by conversion i.e. you have given the car away when you had no permission to do so. As it stands, I don't think you have a leg to stand on in relation to owing the lender, either the return of the car or the market value at the time of termination. Even if DWF succeed in recovering the car, you'll be on the on the hook for any damage caused to it as it was your responsibility to look after it.

    3. You are right that there would be 2 separate claims to this: (1) lender claims against you and (2) you claim against A. If DWF issue a claim, that could probably be dealt with in one single hearing where you would counterclaim against A and bring A into the mix. The judge would then have to determine whether or not based on the facts that you sold the car to A - based on what you've said, A would need to prove what and how much was paid, though it doesn't help that you've transferred the V5C to A which is a schoolboy error and i'm sure you'll learn from it next time.

    I'm slightly confused by DWF saying they are waiting for a court order and you might want to clarify whether an application has been submitted already and, if one has, whether that was a without notice application or not - without notice means what it says, that you don't get notified of the application but for something like this, that would be risky for DWF to do when there is probably no need to submit a without notice application.

    As a means of trying to get the car back, you could report it stolen to the police, that you initially agreed for it to be used but is now refusing to hand it back and so it needs to be reported as stolen i.e. theft. The police might fob you off and say it is a civil matter but you should stick to your guns and make a complaint if they don't act on it. Difficulty with this route is that the V5C isn't in your name, though you could provide a copy of the HP agreement confirming the details of the vehicle and that it belongs to the lender.

    I think I've covered everything but all in all, it's a real big mess.

    Leave a comment:


  • LBoot1694
    replied
    Thanks, Rob.

    I wondered if it would be 2 separate issues and the one with DWF would still stand (I canít see how they will ever evidence theyíve bought that vehicle, itís me signing it over thatís the issue, which is a breach of contract as I understand now from reading up.

    And the the person making the allegation would need to take me to court to try and evidence they bought it?

    Leave a comment:


  • R0b
    replied
    Morning,

    I'll get back to you today once I've have a full read of your post but from skimming it, doesn't look good for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • LBoot1694
    replied
    Hi Rob,

    This has just got a little bit further complex.

    So, I allowed ĎAí to drive this car to get to work. I consequently signed the car over to them, so I wasnít not liable for speeding/parking fines just in case. The car was never sold to them.

    They lives with me - before a relationship breakdown meant they left the property, taking my car with them. Theyíve always refused to give it back and always said they only way itíll be moved from their drive is if Barclays collect it (so I terminated the agreement, as you know).

    However, theyíve since contacted DWF solicitors advising them that they BOUGHT the vehicle from me (this is the least I expected to be honest). However, DWF have given them, in my oppinion, too much information. They havenít actually spoken to the registered keeper of this vehicle - theyíve spoken to their mum (I know, ridiculous!). Theyíve disclosed that:

    They are involved with myselr and BPF.

    The case is on hold pending further information (which is something I wasnít even aware of)

    They have never issued any letter for the return of the vehicle.

    There will be absolutely no no evidence that the vehicle was purchased - there is transactions from our bank accounts, however we were living in the same house and setting one up for the first time - So some of it is within the thousands.


    dwf are now throwing at me Iíve breached my contact again and this is how theyíre planning on getting the car back from me. Theyíre advising theyíre just waiting for a court order, which doesnít make sense - they donít need one, Iíve told them to collect the vehicle, Iím not holding it away from them.

    Any ideas on how to approach it now?

    Its all just just turned into such a mess


    Leave a comment:


  • R0b
    replied
    I don't think you need to respond advising that your position remains the same. You could ask that they have failed to respond to the points made in your previous letter and you are seeking a specific response.

    You can also send DWF the Torts notice and I would also send a copy to BPF as well so they can't say they never received it.

    Good news on the credit file side of things, it's really frustrating and BPF should be on top of this as one day it will come back to bite them when someone chooses to issue legal proceedings and seek compensation - there's no excuse for it really.

    Leave a comment:


  • LBoot1694
    replied
    Hi Rob,

    Still had no further correspondence from them. Should I respond to their email, advising Iím still sticking to that in which I said previously? Interestingly, Iíve just checked my credit file, and the loan has now gone to Ďsettledí. Which means theyíve taken note of something?!

    Leave a comment:

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