Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

[wubbster]

I have written 2 letters now to Natwest regarding my now unused personal account. In the last 6 years I have had (with compound interest) close to £6k of fees. My account is over its overdraft(due to £75 fees each month)but due to being in financial hardship I cannot afford to pay any of it off as that monthly amount is a weeks shopping for my family so I use my business account for things like direct debits etc.

I have sent Income and expediture spreadsheet to them(which shows my outgoings are more than incoming),quoted BCOS,explained how the fees have effected me personally on an ongoing basis and can prove anything if needed but they have not even asked for proof of income etc. We have our house up for sale as we have an arrears on our mortgage, we are behind with council tax, utility bills etc and while I am having to pull some money from the business this is suffering which means I do not have money to invest in the business and it is a catch 22.

I have written to credit card companies who have all agreed a £5 monthly payment which helps a lot, but the fees I get off Natwest for my personal and business account are terrible and not helping my situation at all.

I have asked posted on another forum which I know you guys are aware of but all the answers are quick and cryptic and each reply generates more questions.

Is it worth going to FOS or court with my claim? Is it worth calling Natwest? The other site said that no debt colelctor will take on debt as it is fully made up of fees and charges and interest from these fees and charges. However I am not comfortable letting this overdraft get worse and worse each month. If they had paid back my fees it would have put me straight back in a small positive balance and would have been perfect

Any advice would be great.

[wubbster]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

Nobody can help?

[leclerc]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

Nobody can help?

Have you approached them under financial hardship? If the account is not your main account and that the issue might have been past financial hardship then you have to speak to the bank and I would look at "The Lending Code" section 9.

BTW, I wasn't on the forum yesterday and part of today so did not read your post and as it is Friday, the bank won't be bothered until after the weekend so be patient and I'll get up some links. Have you already read the financial hardship forum posts?

As leclerc/natweststaffmember, I have posted up a lot of information on financial hardship. Not everyone will be in financial hardship and you can NEVER EVER use a template because that is utterly ridiculous.

[leclerc]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

http://www.lendingstandardsboard.org...endingcode.pdf

Section 9 is specific to financial hardship(I will re look at post 1 just to double check a few things).

[leclerc]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

Ok,how have NatWest responded when you have approached them?
What response did they give?
How long was that response and was any response given?

[wubbster]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

I quoted BCOS, and explained my financial hardship, why i was in financial hardship, and what I have done to get through to now(as in sell a vehicle, house on market, sell personal belongings). Both letters were personally written and I did not use a template but followed some guidelines. Both basically got the same reply which was that they believe the charges were lawful etc etc. All the reply letters did was recap what I had written, almost to say "this is not a generic reply letter" which It was as my second reply was almost identical.

Both letters took around 30 days to get a reply, I got a few phone calls and texts advising me they were looking into them. I have also asked for similar fees refunded for my business account, I appreciate this is harder but my business and personal life are so tightly linked. Obviously if business does well I have more money, but while it is slow I cannot take money out of business for my personal life, and if I HAVE to the business will suffer. It is a catch 22.

I have yet to get a reply to my 2nd letter regarding fees on my business account which they received on June 26th.

Thanks for your help so far

[wubbster]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

Whether any of the further information helps but the personal account is a Natwest Gold account and I have had it for over 20 years. Business account I have had for 10 years.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

the personal account is a Natwest Gold account

Which seems rather ironic... :grin:

[leclerc]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

Whether any of the further information helps but the personal account is a Natwest Gold account and I have had it for over 20 years. Business account I have had for 10 years.

You're not asking for a refund of charges, you are asking them to help you during the period of high financial hardship where you have arrears, ie a period of time and not necessary charges over the entirety of the period when times were not necessarily as bad as they are today. I would add that you PAY to have an account, ie Advantage Gold. Ask them to change that to a non fee paying account and it will save you almost £160 a year as a basic starting point.

Why do you have the advantage gold account?
What benefits of the account are you using?

[wubbster]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

I was asking for a refund of the charges, the charges with interest are more than my overdraft. I used the free travel insurance with Natwest Gold but even then it was once a year.

So there is no hope of me getting my charges back? Some of which were £38 for a failed DD. I don't know how I can even claw back the amount which is over the overdraft, and it is rising by £80 a month of interest.

[leclerc]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

I was asking for a refund of the charges, the charges with interest are more than my overdraft. I used the free travel insurance with Natwest Gold but even then it was once a year.

So there is no hope of me getting my charges back? Some of which were £38 for a failed DD. I don't know how I can even claw back the amount which is over the overdraft, and it is rising by £80 a month of interest.

The bank does not have to refund any money under financial hardship so simply asking them to refund the charges because of the fact you are suffering financial hardship is not the only remedy the bank can do to comply with the lending code section 9. It sounds to me as though you have used a letter claiming that charges are unlawful(currently the legal situation is that they are legal) rather than actually arguing that the charges are making your financial hardship worse. You cannot ask for ALL the charges back anyway, because ultimately the bank can refund, if they so choose, only a portion of charges that cover the period of financial hardship. It is a common misconception amongst forums that financial hardship means that the bank HAVE to refund ALL the charges when that is a complete and utter fallacy. If you are claiming BCOBS then you are mistaken since the overdraft comes under the guidance of the OFT and is not subject to BCOBS except for the issue of treating customers fairly. If they have assessed the information you have provided and state that they do not believe you to be in financial hardship then they have done that. However, I think you need to post up the letter you wrote excluding your own details cos I suspect you might have used a template letter or an adapted one and that is a mistake and so the case cannot go to the ombudsman is the form it currently has so a new letter might be required that gets rid of the issue of "unlawful/illegal" charges and focuses more on financial hardship elements and the way that the charges have made them worse taking money that is there to pay those priority debts and leaving no money over to cover them.

[wubbster]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

Thankyou for that explanation, I have been searching for exactly what you wrote as there is so much conflicting info and that tells me straight which is what I need! Here is my 2nd letter I wrote:-

"I am writing with regards to the claim I have previously made for the refund of unauthorised bank charges. I would like to make you aware that I am intending to take my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service as I am currently experiencing extreme financial difficulties.

I believe the fact that I have been incurring bank charges goes contrary to the aims of the Lending Code (Section 9) and Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook (section 5.1.4 ‘in particular, a firm should deal fairly with a banking customer whom it has reason to believe is in financial difficulty’). My personal situation has been affected by the charges leaving me in financial hardship and I am writing to request that you take the following grounds into consideration:

My RBS mortgage is in arrears and currently trying to move house due to this and as yet have not sold.

I am in arrears of council tax and utility bills.

I struggle on a weekly basis to afford essential shopping for my family.

I struggle to afford petrol to travel to and from work and have even sold a vehicle to cut down on tax and insurance costs.

I am behind on all my credit card bills and have been given help by all my creditors regarding these.

My income has dropped considerably as my business has had a huge decline in sales and I cannot drawer any money from the company.

I am constantly living off credit which never allows me to claw anything back.

Looking back at all the charges Natwest has made against my account this money would have been useful for all the above problems.

Your charges are disproportionate, no matter what my limit was up to you always managed to deduct £35 for failed direct debits causing more charges and more chance of further direct debits failing.

As mentioned in my original letter, (and even excluding any monthly credit card payments) my outgoings are now over £800 more than my incoming funds on a monthly basis.

I would like you to reconsider my complaint based on this information and ask that you refund me the total of £2774.35 with compound interest of £3107.12 making a total of £5881.47.

In addition I would ask my interest and charges are frozen while this is resolved as over the last 2 months alone you have added a further £73.73 of charges (dated 22/05/2013) and £78.64 (dated 21/06/2013).

I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days but if you are not able to help I will be taking my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service at the earliest opportunity.

Yours faithfully,"

Do you think I will achieve more by visiting my local branch and having a discussion there?

[leclerc]

Re: Natwest Bank Fee's Claim

Thankyou for that explanation, I have been searching for exactly what you wrote as there is so much conflicting info and that tells me straight which is what I need! Here is my 2nd letter I wrote:-

"I am writing with regards to the claim I have previously made for the refund of unauthorised bank charges. I would like to make you aware that I am intending to take my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service as I am currently experiencing extreme financial difficulties
Not particularly relevant because you have started the letter incorrectly. You need to state that you would like them to reconsider their position on the basis that you are both a personal and a business account holder who is suffering from extreme financial difficulties.
I believe the fact that I have been incurring bank charges goes contrary to the aims of the Lending Code (Section 9
It does not since there is merely a suggestion that charges can be refunded if that is deemed necessary.

and Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook (section 5.1.4 ‘in particular, a firm should deal fairly with a banking customer whom it has reason to believe is in financial difficulty’).
I think perhaps more emphasis on the fact that by not considering your case on financial hardship that they are not treating your case in a fair manner.

My personal situation has been affected by the charges leaving me in financial hardship and I am writing to request that you take the following grounds into consideration:

My RBS mortgage is in arrears and currently trying to move house due to this and as yet have not sold.

I am in arrears of council tax and utility bill What have you done about speaking to the council or the utilities for payment plans and would that reduced plan mean that you could survive on what you earn today?

I struggle on a weekly basis to afford essential shopping for my family.

I struggle to afford petrol to travel to and from work and have even sold a vehicle to cut down on tax and insurance costs.

I am behind on all my credit card bills and have been given help by all my creditors regarding these. The credit cards are not priority debts but would feed into the mix.

My income has dropped considerably as my business has had a huge decline in sales and I cannot drawer any money from the company. Grammar nazi in me say that the word is "draw any money from the company"(a set of recent accounts might be useful in this regards).

I am constantly living off credit which never allows me to claw anything back.

Looking back at all the charges Natwest has made against my account this money would have been useful for all the above problems. You need to explain which charges and when and the effect on them ie, returned direct debit for scottish water lead to a further charges by the utility and that meant you went further behind.

Your charges are disproportionate, no matter what my limit was up to you always managed to deduct £35 for failed direct debits causing more charges and more chance of further direct debits failing
I think the above is nonsense, and a better method might be to say that the charges have meant that the amount of money I now have is x amount per month and the bills are y amount and you are finding that the bank is being unhelpful is not at least considering your situation and offering help to you.
As mentioned in my original letter, (and even excluding any monthly credit card payments) my outgoings are now over £800 more than my incoming funds on a monthly basis.

I would like you to reconsider my complaint based on this information and ask that you refund me the total of £2774.35 with compound interest of £3107.12 making a total of £5881.47.

In addition I would ask my interest and charges are frozen while this is resolved as over the last 2 months alone you have added a further £73.73 of charges (dated 22/05/2013) and £78.64 (dated 21/06/2013)
I like this part of the letter as you have asked the question
I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days but if you are not able to help I will be taking my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service at the earliest opportunity.
Banks do not care about threats to going to the FOS. If it has been 8 weeks since the original letter then you are automatically allowed to go to the FOS. I would actually ring the FOS and ask advice perhaps on this case.

Yours faithfully,"

Do you think I will achieve more by visiting my local branch and having a discussion there? Definitely not cos you will get dumb and even dumber talking to you.

See above and apologies, have been rather baked with the sun so not been online too much but outside in the garden enjoying the weather.