Duty of Care to Gamblers

[PlanB]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

I think there is an argument to be had on "enabling" isn't there?

That's what the US anti-gun lobby debate is all about. I feel that those with the power to help prevent those with no willpower should restrict access to anything which could make matters worse, and definitely not profit from it with things such as bank charges on an OD limit increase (15 times!) which was not applied for in the first place :nono:

[jon1965]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Inca I feel how frustrated you must feel. However I still believe that addiction is an illness. You got this person over the physical addiction but not the mental one. Would you say an anorexic was ill? They will stop eating until they die, just as some alcoholics will drink even knowing it's killing them.
While people do not die from gambling , well not directly although it can take you to the point of suicide in my opinion is an illness.

PlanB for the first time ever I have to say that by saying it is lack of willpower does make it sound easy and I am sure you didn't mean that...thats the DM for you lol
What I would say is that willpower is much easier when you are well and content
Some people can dabble for a few years and stop...whatever it is, maybe that takes intervention maybe not others are not so able. My Gran would have called an addiction or mental health issues a lack of moral character until she ended up on powerful drugs and having ECT

[Inca]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

I'm not frustrated by it,,I'm incredibly sad.It leaves one feeling worthless and disposable,that a persons greed and avarice affects so many others. Life is about choices,what paths we take. Anyone who recognizes they have an addiction and seeks help for it is hopeful,anyone who gets that help and ignores it is a true addict,they choose to revert back to their addiction.Nothing in life is easy and it's easier to stick with an addiction than fight it.
And that's seriously my last post on this..The OP wants advice on banking protocol not my reasons why I think he is whistling in the wind by expecting the bank to hold someones hand through their addiction.

[wales01man]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

JON
You have been very honest in your answers and say there are other underlying problems you have.
seems that you are realising what the problems are and where you can end up if you carry on,i hope it all works out you show to us that people can change if they want and there is help,please carry it on sort out the problems from the post i read on here you are getting there,
One of the points i raise ,is the fact that there is help for everyone who has a problem big or small,but they must admit there is a problem,
INCA
My parents and his doctor tried to help my brother with his drinking therapy/rehap and hospitalisation none helped it only helped,in the sense that when he was away for want of a better word .he saved up his benefit came out and first thing was too go to off licence for 2 bottles of vodka ,he was not mentally ill he knew what he was doing and where it was going.He drank his life away ,
This is why i will never accept its an ilness

[gravytrain]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Thank you for your post. It is not a case of policing the account. As mentioned the account holder disclosed their addiction but despite having a policy in place to restrict borrowing following a disclosure, the bank failed to implement it on that occasion. I take the point about other addictions but a gambling addiction is a mental illness defined as "difficulties in limiting money which leads to adverse consequences". Also please refer to the Lending Code which has a whole section on Debt and Mental Health.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but if the issue involves a repeat authority to draw on a debit card when the authority has been withdrawn, the bank are liable of course.

[Inca]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Wales...same here except it was my sister.

[jon1965]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Whatever the addiction the first hurdle is recognising that you have a problem. Many , like me, do not do that until some major life event. Others I know who clearly have some level of problems never recognise it. It is so terrible sad when someone is so very ill they would racarry on even knowing it will kill them. All the smokers out there know it will probably shorten their lives but they still do it

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Inca I feel how frustrated you must feel. However I still believe that addiction is an illness. You got this person over the physical addiction but not the mental one. Would you say an anorexic was ill? They will stop eating until they die, just as some alcoholics will drink even knowing it's killing them.
While people do not die from gambling , well not directly although it can take you to the point of suicide in my opinion is an illness.

Anorexia is recognised by the medical profession as an illness. In fact, it is the deadliest of all mental illnesses: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/a...order-anorexia

PlanB for the first time ever I have to say that by saying it is lack of willpower does make it sound easy and I am sure you didn't mean that...thats the DM for you lol
What I would say is that willpower is much easier when you are well and content
Some people can dabble for a few years and stop...whatever it is, maybe that takes intervention maybe not others are not so able. My Gran would have called an addiction or mental health issues a lack of moral character until she ended up on powerful drugs and having ECT

There are those who disagree with me when I say there is such thing as an addictive personality, they say it's a way to justify your actions, however, I don't say it to justify myself, in fact, I DON'T have an addictive personality at all! I started smoking early out of rebellion and wanting to be 'cool', tried a few things, got drunk more times than I can remember, visited friends in Vegas and spent all night gambling, yet I never got hooked on any of these things. I never had to worry about giving up smoking, when I was in my early 20s I stopped seeing the point and just forgot about cigarettes. :smokin:

Whatever the addiction the first hurdle is recognising that you have a problem. Many , like me, do not do that until some major life event. Others I know who clearly have some level of problems never recognise it. It is so terrible sad when someone is so very ill they would racarry on even knowing it will kill them. All the smokers out there know it will probably shorten their lives but they still do it

Indeed, hence the well known introduction "Hi, my name is BigBoozer and I'm an alcoholic".

[Inca]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

My Dad was a heavy social drinker,,he would be labelled 'alcoholic' nowadays,but knowing his drinking habits I would beg to differ.
I started smoking to be cool,I didn't get 'addicted' I carried on choosing to smoke and still do,,despite a valiant attempt recently,,I enjoy smoking,I like it and I tend to do things I like,,am not justifying it,that's the God honest truth,I like it.
I stopped drinking alcohol because I got my driving licence,and nearly drove after a drink,,wasn't 'legless' wasn't even tipsy,,but would more than likely have been over the limit and I scared myself,so only way to never nearly fall into the trap again was not to drink.(My policy,,doesn't make it right for anyone else)And,,I wish I could show people my memories,whats inbedded in my brain about my sisters death,,the stark reality of the end of an alkies life,,the horror,because (as wales probably can attest) it aint like it is in the movies x

[leclerc]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but if the issue involves a repeat authority to draw on a debit card when the authority has been withdrawn, the bank are liable of course.

With online betting sites(yes I do bet online occasionally) your debit card details are stored and you can then top up the account. You can set up daily limits as well on online betting accounts but if you have multiple accounts with multiple betting outlets then setting a minimum may well not even be worth it.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Exactly Jon :yo:

It takes two to create an authorised overdraft facility :nod:

But it can take only ONE to create an UNAUTHORISED one! I have a Ltd co. account with Barcraps, only used to invoice for my services rather than buying goods, so no O/D facility at all. There was a time, after the credit crunch, when I wasn't using the account, yet they decided to start charging an account fee and also 'added' a service I never requested or even knew about called 'business essentials'. A total of around £25/month plus O/D charges.

As there was no money in the account, it just went overdrawn despite no arranged O/D facility :mad2: I never used a penny of the £300 or so unarranged O/D, made up purely of their own charges. :rant: When I had to start using the account again to get paid, the O/D was automatically paid off, and I was told on other forums there was no chance of reclaiming anything on a business account. Was going to open another business account with Satan's Den, but was put off by the prospect of having my credit checked in front of other people who would need to be present at the time of opening the account.

[leclerc]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

I think the problem we have is that things categorised under the heading of "addiction" are not in themselves mental health issues that are covered by the lending code section 9 which deals with debts. However, if the addiction was caused by say a brain injury then there is a possibility that there is an avenue to go down because of a change in the normal behaviour of the individual. If "addiction" was inclusive of that part of the lending code then we would have alcoholism, drug addiction and gambling included in that terminology, however they are not and so I am not sure that the lending code is the right route in this instance.
If there is specific evidence that the bank were told to not allow certain card transactions to go out, ie to betting institutions and they failed to adhere to that notification then perhaps we might look at whether the bank simply ignored the customer. That does not mean that the monies spent are refundable, because they are not but it might mean that it can be used as a levy against any debt owed.

[leclerc]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

But it can take only ONE to create an UNAUTHORISED one! I have a Ltd co. account with Barcraps, only used to invoice for my services rather than buying goods, so no O/D facility at all. There was a time, after the credit crunch, when I wasn't using the account, yet they decided to start charging an account fee and also 'added' a service I never requested or even knew about called 'business essentials'. A total of around £25/month plus O/D charges.

As there was no money in the account, it just went overdrawn despite no arranged O/D facility :mad2: I never used a penny of the £300 or so unarranged O/D, made up purely of their own charges. :rant: When I had to start using the account again to get paid, the O/D was automatically paid off, and I was told on other forums there was no chance of reclaiming anything on a business account. Was going to open another business account with Satan's Den, but was put off by the prospect of having my credit checked in front of other people who would need to be present at the time of opening the account.

I disagree with that advice on the basis that as it was a business account that any change to that account should be notified to you in writing. A few years ago, NatWest got into trouble for passing overdraft fees, ie yearly fees for the privilege of having an overdraft without notifying the customer of that charge. Hmmmm, did you ever revisit those fees?(perhaps another thread might be in order if you did not depending on how old the charges were from).

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

I disagree with that advice on the basis that as it was a business account that any change to that account should be notified to you in writing. A few years ago, NatWest got into trouble for passing overdraft fees, ie yearly fees for the privilege of having an overdraft without notifying the customer of that charge. Hmmmm, did you ever revisit those fees?(perhaps another thread might be in order if you did not depending on how old the charges were from).

I just got my friend and Company Secretary who lives near the branch to have a word with them and they cancelled the 'business essentials with Sage' 'add-on'. But I never got the charges refunded, just stopped. This took place in 2010.

[leclerc]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

I just got my friend and Company Secretary who lives near the branch to have a word with them and they cancelled the 'business essentials with Sage' 'add-on'. But I never got the charges refunded, just stopped. This took place in 2010.

I suspect a new thread is in order as I think there might be a case.......