Duty of Care to Gamblers

[wales01man]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Change my tune here does the OP intend taking on the bank to try for compo?
would think if they lost the door would open for anyone who was giving money in an overdraft and gambled would to claim.
good luck to them one hell of a gamble though

---

If you're skint and an alcoholic you drink wood alcohol and go blind[/QUOTE]

[matth200]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Were these overdraft limit increases specifically requested by the bank customer or 'forced' upon them even in a tacit way? I assure you this matters in any assessment of "irresponsible lending" never mind vulnerability or mental health issues :rant: Perhaps a formal complaint to the bank would be appropriate first and then take it to the FOS.

Read this: http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/.../irresponsible

The O/D limit increases were forced on the account holder because when the account holder exceeded the overdraft limit the bank increased the overdraft to cover pending charges.

[matth200]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

The bank ignored the disclosure and wrote a note on the account to the effect that it did not deem the customer not to be vulnerable because there was a period of 3 months when the customer was gambling and they were not incurring charges. This really was the genuine reply.

[PlanB]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

The O/D limit increases were forced on the account holder because when the account holder exceeded the overdraft limit the bank increased the overdraft to cover pending charges.

This is how the FOS views "irresponsible lending" and it's nothing whatsoever to do with the customer being vulnerable, mentally impaired or bonkers because it's to do with the bank's assessment of whether you (the customer) can afford to service the loan/borrowing

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...59-banking.htm

[matth200]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Has a complaint gone in? If you have evidence that in this case the bank could have and should have placed restrictions on an account then make a complaint to the bank over a failure in their duty to their customer.

I do not see a case under the Lending Code section 9 in regards to debts and mental health.

As far as I am aware, in regards to lending money, the only issue is affordability rather than any other thing. If the person concerned remained within their overdraft facility and had funds coming into the account then clearly they were trustworthy.

If a letter stating about a gambling addiction was sent in, then the banks' response/acknowledgement would be of interest if one was ever received.

A complaint went into the bank but it was originally about the overdraft balance which was largely made up of charges. The disclosure was flagged up to them but at first they said no disclosure had been received, it was only when the account holder did SAR that they discovered that the bank had received everything and noted the comments about them not being a vulnerable customer.

I think the key point to this is that a disclosure letter was sent to the bank, acknowledged and then nothing constructive was done with it. Its not a speculative complaint. Gambling is a real problem and there are currently 400,000 problem gamblers in the UK. Surely banks have some sort of duty to protect customers. The Lending Code is relevant imo because it has a big section about Debt and Mental Health and it specifically mentions, sign posting and sending Debt and Mental Health Evidence Form to customer.

---

[PlanB]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Gambling is an addiction just as much as alcoholism or drug addiction and is an illness. There is something within the make up of addicts that causes this. That is a recognised fact.
Now as some of you know, my life has been pretty much ruined by an addiction to fruit machines, I have lost my job, nearly gone to prison and arguably been on the edge of a breakdown due to it all. I am not proud of it however I need to admit it.
There was someone on here recently who was an addict and had gone overdrawn by a lot but thought it wasn't an addiction.


As for the bank, I am afraid that they can not be expected to police an addicts gambling, however if they have let the O/D go unauthorised you may have a claim against them just as, if you had asked them not to increase the O/D limit and they did without any request.

I am not sure what help can be offered but rest assured that most people will not judge you, I can say without any doubt that PlanB Flaming Parrot Labman and more will be supportive/

Exactly Jon :yo:

It takes two to create an authorised overdraft facility :nod:

[wales01man]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

JON1965
Itake it your gambling is in the past did you sort it or did you get the help that is out there?

[MissFM]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Jon - I think we'd all like to know how you did it/are doing it and (certainly from my p of v) are in awe...

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

I'm sorry but this is not correct. Banks can and do restrict debit and credit cards for business customers to prevent them being used for gambling transactions. They simply have to restrict it by merchant code. There is a great deal the bank's could do.

Not always, certainly not with me. I distinctly remember using a business Barclaycard on the William Hill website in 2010. I'm not a gambler but I did place a few football bets during the 2010 World Cup, I used that card because it was close at hand at the time. A few months later, some strange transactions were made on the card and it was Barclays who spotted them, they asked me to ring them and one of the 'security' questions to verify me was "What gambling site was the card used on recently?" I got the card cancelled and replaced and I wasn't charged for the dodgy transactions, but there was never any mention of not using the card for online gambling.

Hi
First off to Inca
Gambling is an addiction just as much as alcoholism or drug addiction and is an illness. There is something within the make up of addicts that causes this. That is a recognised fact.
Now as some of you know, my life has been pretty much ruined by an addiction to fruit machines, I have lost my job, nearly gone to prison and arguably been on the edge of a breakdown due to it all. I am not proud of it however I need to admit it.
There was someone on here recently who was an addict and had gone overdrawn by a lot but thought it wasn't an addiction.

Indeed, there's even food addiction, I've seen those programs showing people who are bedridden and suffer all sorts of medical conditions due to extreme obesity, yet they can't stop eating, even when their life is at serious risk!

As for the bank, I am afraid that they can not be expected to police an addicts gambling, however if they have let the O/D go unauthorised you may have a claim against them just as, if you had asked them not to increase the O/D limit and they did without any request.

I am not sure what help can be offered but rest assured that most people will not judge you, I can say without any doubt that PlanB Flaming Parrot Labman and more will be supportive

:yo: We're here to help, not to judge. From a practical point of view, banks can't be expected to police transactions on an individual basis, if they did, they would have to offer a similar service to, say, alcoholics not to be allowed to buy alcohol or smokers not being able to buy tobacco, which wouldn't be easy, given that these are sold in supermarkets. Where would you draw the line? However, allowing the O/D to increase the way they did is certainly irresponsible. This is how most of us ended up defaulting on our credit cards, they all started out with low limits and were automatically increased till the credit crunch stroke. :rant:

Sorry it is the same for personal accounts - they can restrict, they just don't do it from the start like they do with business accounts.

See above, they didn't do it with my account. :noidea:

[MissFM]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

BUT FP - in this particular instance - instructions were allegedly given to the bank to not pay out on certain transactions (to do with gambling) regardless of competence, vulnerability etc surely that would hold???

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

BUT FP - in this particular instance - instructions were allegedly given to the bank to not pay out on certain transactions (to do with gambling) regardless of competence, vulnerability etc surely that would hold???

It's not clear from the posts that this was the case, the posts say the addiction was disclosed, what they don't say, is that the bank agreed to block any gambling transactions, or provide any details of how the agrement was reached: over the phone, in writing, in branch... :noidea:

[MissFM]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

I dunno - it seems to be implied - but then leclerc was saying it wouldn't hold....and the OP seemed to be saying it was pre-agreed...

[leclerc]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

A complaint went into the bank but it was originally about the overdraft balance which was largely made up of charges. The disclosure was flagged up to them but at first they said no disclosure had been received, it was only when the account holder did SAR that they discovered that the bank had received everything and noted the comments about them not being a vulnerable customer.

I think the key point to this is that a disclosure letter was sent to the bank, acknowledged and then nothing constructive was done with it. Its not a speculative complaint. Gambling is a real problem and there are currently 400,000 problem gamblers in the UK. Surely banks have some sort of duty to protect customers. The Lending Code is relevant imo because it has a big section about Debt and Mental Health and it specifically mentions, sign posting and sending Debt and Mental Health Evidence Form to customer.

---

Was the issue of gambling affecting the ability to pay the debt at the point that the letter was sent in(part 246 of the lending code)?

Was a form such as the following link sent in(part 247 of the lending code) http://www.malg.org.uk/dmhdocuments/...20advisers.pdf ?

Was the person who wrote in about gambling stating that they were in financial difficulties?(If not then Debt and mental Health under the lending code would not have applied and further still, I do not consider that gambling would be classed as mental health under the lending code).

[jon1965]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

JON1965
Itake it your gambling is in the past did you sort it or did you get the help that is out there?

Jon - I think we'd all like to know how you did it/are doing it and (certainly from my p of v) are in awe...

No I woudn't say it was in the past although I have gone many weeks without playing a fruit machine. Losing your job and ending up being told if you get two years in prison would be a good result (thankfully I got a suspended sentence) does focus the mind.

What has really stopped me is no access to money and I do not have the skill or personality to be a mugger or housebreaker (not to mention the prospect of prison)

As for the help out there, I looked at the GA type stuff and it didn't appeal however I was lucky enough to access mental health services. I have had to stop these because of the cost (you only get a very limited amount) . My probation officer has also been supportive.

I have an addictive personality as people who know me will attest to and that is, in my own opinion, down to underlying mental health/self esteem issues. In 2013 getting NHS help for generic mental health is so very difficult, god knows what it is like for people who are really ill.

[Inca]

Re: Duty of Care to Gamblers

Please be aware...I have first hand experience of an alcoholic,,there isn't a stone we left unturned,not an avenue we didn't explore...we tried absolutely everything. The person went into a very expensive private rehab and got 'clean' and 'well'.......and then CHOSE to drink again...so No,,she wasn't ill she was ADDICTED and like most addicts she chose to carry on ,she chose booze over everybody and everything and now she's dead.I went in local shops asking them not to sell her booze,,they replied,,if we don't someone else will and why should we lose a sale?
I don't know the rules and regs of banking,I'm just a common or garden account holder,I don't see how they can be responsible,but maybe I'm wrong.
End of thread involvement,,going round in circles.