Swift Advances Plc?

[yorkie-dave]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

hi peter

ok thankyou for that,i have lost nothing really i guess as i didn't initially come on here looking for anything back,just to post some info regards brokers fees.

as they say,if you havent had it you dont miss it lol

dave

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Sorry Peter,

I absolutely disagree it does not comply with the 1983 Consumer Credit Regulations on the form and content of a regulated agreement and SECTION 60 (2) a & b of the CCA 1974
Especially the Warning that

YOUR HOME MAY BE REPOSSESSED should you fail to keep to this agreement and fail to make the payments on this agreement
This is an absolute MUST
...even on unregulated agreements


This is what the CCR's 1983 have to say about what a reguated agreement should be set
out as and CONTAIN the words I have highlighted.

(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 and shall come into

operation on 19th May 1985

[(c) under the heading "Key Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 6 to
8B, 11 to 14 and 15 to 17 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;]
(d) under the heading "Other Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 3 to 5,
9, 10, 14A and 18 to 19A of Schedule 1 to these regulations;
(e) under the heading "Key Information"--
(i) the information set out in paragraphs 20 to 24 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations; and
(ii) the statements of protection and remedies set out in Schedule 2 to these Regulations; and
(f) the signature box and, where applicable, the separate box required by paragraph (7)(b) below;
and such information, statements of protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes shall be shown together as a whole and shall not be preceded by any information apart from trade names, logos or the reference number of the agreement or interspersed with any other information or wording apart from subtotals of total amounts and cross references to the terms of the agreement.

All types. MISSING PAYMENTS
Missing payments could have severe consequences and make obtaining credit more difficult.

3 All agreements which are secured on land.
YOUR HOME MAY BE REPOSSESSED
Your home may be repossessed if you do not keep up
repayments on a mortgage or other debt secured on it.


Swift completely changed the format of their agreements soon after you took your loan out Dave up untill 2004 they were owned by Patricia & John Myers........when Alchemy took over they changed all their agreements because they knew they were flawed and got rid of most of them.....but occasionally they used the old ones by mistake and some borrowers still have the old type up to about 2006

I also note that the big warning box at the end of the terms and conditions which are not signed ( they make you sign on their later agreements) sould be on the font page preceding your signature.
I can post a copy of these later ones if you wish and their new type agreement
Sparkie



Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

APR Calculator

Loan Amount (C): £ 14,935
Extra Cost (E): £ 808.38
Interest Rate % (R): 15.4
No. of Months (N): 120

APR:
16.8200 %

The above is what I believe the APR should be shown as on your agreement...............this is not my calculations but by one of the best APR calculators there is available

Sparkie

Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

[yorkie-dave]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

well if you two can sort out between you where i stand etc then it would be much appreciated,as you said sparkie it may be worth speaking to a solicitor,can you recommend anyone or can you speak to them online,email etc?

bit of background info:

we took our mortgage out in early 2000

in august 2000 i was involved in a car accident as a passenger and it buggered my back up
i have spinal and neck problems ever since and had many epidurals,lumber injections and facet joint injections ever since and im on DLA,not being able to work since,im on constant medication(diasapam,solpodol,diclofenac and recently lyrica to help with spasms) and in pain every day,walking is do'able as long as im steady away and dont rush things,lifting is a no no and public transport painful,i cant drive anymore as when back spasms come on i cant move or breathe properly.


in 2003 we had used all of our savings and were struggling to pay back a previous loan we got when i was working,to install double glazing,central heating and do the house up in general..we were struggling bad and had no choice really but to take another loan out or lose the house so we did that with swift..silly yes i know.

and that kinda brings us to where we are now,we manage just about to pay the loan and mortgage shortfall out of our DLA,our mortgage is thankfully small at £30k and its £230 a month,social pays about £100 a month of that and we pay the shortfall,we get about £680 a month for both of us(my wife is disabled)so doesnt leave much if anything left over and what comes in goes out..

so back to the point,travelling to see a solicitor is going to be hard because i very very rarely manage to get out so any help is very much appreciated,if we can get interest back due to the loan being wrong then great,if not then so be it and we struggle on until its paid off..it was our choice to take the loan and we have to live with it.

btw we were both not working at the time as stated in my first bit of this post when we got the loan with swift.

[Guest]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

The agreement regulations you refer to are the ammended version and include the si 1442 si. On the later copies of the 1983/1553 regs they are include with the modifications in Square brackets.
As i said these did not come into effect until may 2005. THis i why everyone changed their format.
In any case a breach of this kind will not render an agreement unenforceable it would meerly need an order of the court to enforce which would ceratinly be issued.
Peter

[jumper999]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Sorry Peter,

I absolutely disagree it does not comply with the 1983 Consumer Credit Regulations on the form and content of a regulated agreement and SECTION 60 (2) a & b of the CCA 1974
Especially the Warning that

YOUR HOME MAY BE REPOSSESSED should you fail to keep to this agreement and fail to make the payments on this agreement
This is an absolute MUST
...even on unregulated agreements


This is what the CCR's 1983 have to say about what a reguated agreement should be set
out as and CONTAIN the words I have highlighted.

(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 and shall come into

operation on 19th May 1985

[(c) under the heading "Key Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 6 to
8B, 11 to 14 and 15 to 17 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;]
(d) under the heading "Other Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 3 to 5,
9, 10, 14A and 18 to 19A of Schedule 1 to these regulations;
(e) under the heading "Key Information"--
(i) the information set out in paragraphs 20 to 24 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations; and
(ii) the statements of protection and remedies set out in Schedule 2 to these Regulations; and
(f) the signature box and, where applicable, the separate box required by paragraph (7)(b) below;
and such information, statements of protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes shall be shown together as a whole and shall not be preceded by any information apart from trade names, logos or the reference number of the agreement or interspersed with any other information or wording apart from subtotals of total amounts and cross references to the terms of the agreement.

All types. MISSING PAYMENTS
Missing payments could have severe consequences and make obtaining credit more difficult.

3 All agreements which are secured on land.
YOUR HOME MAY BE REPOSSESSED
Your home may be repossessed if you do not keep up
repayments on a mortgage or other debt secured on it.


Swift completely changed the format of their agreements soon after you took your loan out Dave up untill 2004 they were owned by Patricia & John Myers........when Alchemy took over they changed all their agreements because they knew they were flawed and got rid of most of them.....but occasionally they used the old ones by mistake and some borrowers still have the old type up to about 2006

I also note that the big warning box at the end of the terms and conditions which are not signed ( they make you sign on their later agreements) sould be on the font page preceding your signature.
I can post a copy of these later ones if you wish and their new type agreement
Sparkie



Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

Thanks sparkie just what I was looking for :tinysmile_kiss_t4:
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

The agreement regulations you refer to are the ammended version and include the si 1442 si. On the later copies of the 1983/1553 regs they are include with the modifications in Square brackets.
As i said these did not come into effect until may 2005. THis i why everyone changed their format.
In any case a breach of this kind will not render an agreement unenforceable it would meerly need an order of the court to enforce which would ceratinly be issued.
Peter

Maybe you are right Peter, but I believe that this is important information that SHOULD be on all secured loan agreements especially secured on land.

I mean every 1st charge mortgage agreement has this warning so why should a 2nd charge secured loan agreement not have this important and very serious warning on their agreements?

Yes the court may not find it unenforceable but what is the reason the lenders do leave this information out?

[Guest]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Regarding the APR this is as i said correct. I have noticed however that this is a variable rate agreemnt, which means that the Interst is a prescribed term.
Therefore i would suggest you send this and see what happens.

Dear Sir
On examination of the agreement I notice that the figure given for the APR quoted indicates that the Brokers fees and other charges are contained within the total charge for Credit. This is of course compliant with section 20 of the Consumer Credit Act.
Upon further investigation however it appears that the monthly interest (1.08%) is being applied to the Total amount Payable (£14935), which includes these fees and charges.
I am sure you realise that the rate of interest is a prescribed term under Schedule 6(4b) “A term states the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement.”
It would seem that the rate quoted is applied to the total credit + charges which as you can see is none compliant.
I am sure you realise the seriousness of this, in that the rate of interest is a prescribed term on this type of agreement and none compliance with section 6 would render the agreement unenforceable via section 65 and 127(3) of the act.
Until a satisfactory explanation is received from you pointing out any error in my calculations I therefore consider this agreement unenforceable in law.
Peter

[Guest]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Thanks sparkie just what I was looking for :tinysmile_kiss_t4:
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------



Maybe you are right Peter, but I believe that this is important information that SHOULD be on all secured loan agreements especially secured on land.

I mean every 1st charge mortgage agreement has this warning so why should a 2nd charge secured loan agreement not have this important and very serious warning on their agreements?

Yes the court may not find it unenforceable but what is the reason the lenders do leave this information out?

Problem is that when the agrement was signed there was no statutory reason why this information should be presented in the manner you say. As far as the court is concerned they did nothing wrong.
Peter

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

The agreement regulations you refer to are the ammended version and include the si 1442 si. On the later copies of the 1983/1553 regs they are include with the modifications in Square brackets.
As i said these did not come into effect until may 2005. THis i why everyone changed their format.
In any case a breach of this kind will not render an agreement unenforceable it would meerly need an order of the court to enforce which would ceratinly be issued.
Peter

MOrning Peter

As I said before that's what I want someone to play Devils Advocate............... But the way I see is ....its the 2004 CCRegs that came into force in May 2005.
This is what a top consumer barrister has put up on his website

http://www.johnpughschambers.co.uk/C..._Regs_1983.pdf



Sparkie
Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

[Guest]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

APR Calculator

Loan Amount (C): £ 14,935
Extra Cost (E): £ 808.38
Interest Rate % (R): 15.4
No. of Months (N): 120

APR:
16.8200 %

The above is what I believe the APR should be shown as on your agreement...............this is not my calculations but by one of the best APR calculators there is available

Sparkie

Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

HI Sparkie

Yes and you are right using the figures you are given. Because the interst rate is incorrect.

I made an error in believing that the interst on this kind of agreement was not a prescribed term, it is because it is variable. This is why i did not take it into consideration. Nobody is perfect.

However you have to take these things with care, no point screeming unenforceablity until you are sure of the facts.

As far as the APR calculation is concerned i use the formual prescribed in the TCC regulation 1980 as ammended and a spreadsheet.


Peter

[Guest]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

[quote=Sparkie1723;221913]MOrning Peter

As I said before that's what I want someone to play Devils Advocate............... But the way I see is ....its the 2004 CCRegs that came into force in May 2005.
This is what a top consumer barrister has put up on his website

http://www.johnpughschambers.co.uk/C..._Regs_1983.pdf



Sparkie
Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

Hi Sparkie not playing devils advocate in this instance. Your top barristor is correct the 1442 did come int effect in May 2005 this agrement is dated 2004, the parts that you itemise refer to the form of the agreement( the Key terms etc.) and were in the new ammendments, not in the orriginal regulations, and therfore not aplicable to agreements before May 2005.

Peter

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

[quote=peterbard;221916]

MOrning Peter

As I said before that's what I want someone to play Devils Advocate............... But the way I see is ....its the 2004 CCRegs that came into force in May 2005.
This is what a top consumer barrister has put up on his website

http://www.johnpughschambers.co.uk/C..._Regs_1983.pdf



Sparkie
Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

Hi Sparkie not playing devils advocate in this instance. Your top barristor is correct the 1442 did come int effect in May 2005 this agrement is dated 2004, the parts that you itemise refer to the form of the agreement( the Key terms etc.) and were in the new ammendments, not in the orriginal regulations, and therfore not aplicable to agreements before May 2005.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for that I know that you are much more conversant with such matters and take all you say under my hat for future ref ..........because of this you will be more conversant with the APR tolerances ....if this calulation is correct I have posted, then this will apply more than likely??????

Regina -v- Kettering Magistrates' Court ex parte MRB Insurance Brokers Limited [2000] EWHC Admin 320

4 Apr 2000
Admn
Schiemann LJ, Douglas Brown J
Consumer, Crime, Financial Services
Casemap
1 Cites
A statement of an APR in the sale of a financial services product remained a price indication, and, if it was miscalculated, that was a misleading price indication, and criminal, despite provisions in the Consumer Credit legislation. What was given was a price under the contract: "The total amount payable under the contract which can properly be described as the price, should be arrived at by reference to the APR. The APR given was very substantially below the true APR and Mr Pulford Junior was given a totally false indication as to how the aggregate of the sums required to be paid would be determined. In those circumstances clearly a misleading indication as to price was given. The question as to the enforceability of the agreement is quite irrelevant." As to the effect of the section: "Section 170(1) is not an obstacle to a prosecution under the Consumer Protection Act 1987, where the provisions of Section 20 are apt to cover a factual situation such as that which arose in this case."

Sparkie
Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

interest on the credit must be correct on a variable rate loan.

[Guest]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

[quote=Sparkie1723;221918]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for that I know that you are much more conversant with such matters and take all you say under my hat for future ref ..........because of this you will be more conversant with the APR tolerances ....if this calulation is correct I have posted, then this will apply more than likely??????

Regina -v- Kettering Magistrates' Court ex parte MRB Insurance Brokers Limited [2000] EWHC Admin 320

4 Apr 2000
Admn
Schiemann LJ, Douglas Brown J
Consumer, Crime, Financial Services
Casemap
1 Cites
A statement of an APR in the sale of a financial services product remained a price indication, and, if it was miscalculated, that was a misleading price indication, and criminal, despite provisions in the Consumer Credit legislation. What was given was a price under the contract: "The total amount payable under the contract which can properly be described as the price, should be arrived at by reference to the APR. The APR given was very substantially below the true APR and Mr Pulford Junior was given a totally false indication as to how the aggregate of the sums required to be paid would be determined. In those circumstances clearly a misleading indication as to price was given. The question as to the enforceability of the agreement is quite irrelevant." As to the effect of the section: "Section 170(1) is not an obstacle to a prosecution under the Consumer Protection Act 1987, where the provisions of Section 20 are apt to cover a factual situation such as that which arose in this case."

Sparkie
Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

Yes the APR is the main indicator of the credit bargain and is therefor a major factor in in the possible predudice caused to the lender.

However in this cse we are looking at unenforceability under section 127 the APR is not a prescribed term, interst is.

Unenforceability neans the court CANNOT enforce. A breach of the requiremnts of the accuracy in an APR can still be enforced by order of the court.
Peter

[Guest]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

interest on the credit must be correct on a variable rate loan.

Yes it must that is why this agreement is possibly unenforceable.
Peter