Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi Budgie and BIG thanks for the above.

I'll take this one step at a time, if I may ?

My 'initial' question is regarding what charges I can and can't claim for. Here's how the various 'charge related' items show on my Natwest Statements:

"SERVICE FEE" ?
"UNNARRGD BORROW F"
"PAID REFERRAL"
"PRF" (as above ?)
"A/C"
"REFERRAL CHARGE"
"UNPAID ITEM(S)"
"CR"
"CARD MISUSE"
"S/C REFUND"
"REFUND UNPAID FEE"
"CHARGES REFUND"
"RFND CD MISUE FE"
"REFUND"
"GTEE CARD PYMT FEE"

Please bare in mind some of the above are for refunds / credits and NOT charges / interest / Debits !

I seem to recall, when I completed my original (moneysavingexpert) spreadsheet, the instructions were that they're (the bank) entitled to charge interest on the overdraft so I believe these (HUGE) figures were all ommitted ? All I actually put on were the 'service fee type / one-off type fees' ?

Do I still show all charges AND their refunds on this form of just ommit these items altogether (as they onviously cancel each other out) ?

I should mention the above list of items and the huge variation in charges etc... Some (e.g. "SERVICE FEE") are for just £6, in many cases, whereas others (e.g. "UNPAID ITEM(S)) are up to £38 each time !

Regarding interest charges during the period between Jan '09 and Sep '09, when the account wasn't even used, at all (and AFTER I'd already pleaded hardship & asked them to please freeze all charges to assist me (Citizens Advise Template Letter) - to no avail I should add !) they were charging me £28 "Maintenance Charge" PER MONTH AND a further interest of approx. £60-£70 PER MONTH ON TOP ! This alone, for this short period, amounted to approx. £800 of fees !

Perhaps you'll advise that I just put EVERYTHING on the spreadsheet BUT this is obviously a huge job and may well take me sometime to finalise !

Thanks Budgie,

R

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thanks Budgie, in anticipation of your reply / advise.

THROUGH THIS WEBSITE I'D LIKE TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO THANK BUDGIE, AME AND ALL OTHERS WHO HAVE ASSISTED ME, DURING 2009.

FURTHERMORE I WISH EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY, HEALTHY (AND PROSPEROUS) NEW YEAR.

Kind regards,

R

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

I'll ask Nattie to come double check but for now include these ones. And blimey how many different names do they use !

"UNNARRGD BORROW F"
"PAID REFERRAL"
"PRF" (as above ?) -- don't know this one but I assume you are right.
"REFERRAL CHARGE"
"UNPAID ITEM(S)"
"CARD MISUSE"
"REFUND UNPAID FEE" (include refunds as a minus figure the spreadsheet will sort the interest out accordingly)
"CHARGES REFUND"
"RFND CD MISUE FE"
"REFUND"
"GTEE CARD PYMT FEE"

Regarding interest charges during the period between Jan '09 and Sep '09, when the account wasn't even used, at all (and AFTER I'd already pleaded hardship & asked them to please freeze all charges to assist me (Citizens Advise Template Letter) - to no avail I should add !) they were charging me £28 "Maintenance Charge" PER MONTH AND a further interest of approx. £60-£70 PER MONTH ON TOP ! This alone, for this short period, amounted to approx. £800 of fees !

We'll definately include that in the claim. If you come across any other evidence of the banks taking advantage of their position and basically the imbalance in the contract that would be good.

Regarding interest they charged you on the overdraft - if the figures are huge it is possible to estimate something and include it in the claim - the bank will have to work it out anyway. Each statement period look at the overall overdrawn balance, the value of the charges that month, and work out what proportion of the overdraft was charges - then use same proportion of the interest paid. (eg overdraft in month £100 charges £35 interest charged £1 - you'd claim 35p ) hope that makes a little sense ?

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

ooo and a very Happy Christmas to you as well :fireside:

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi Budgie and BIG thanks for the above.

I'll take this one step at a time, if I may ?

My 'initial' question is regarding what charges I can and can't claim for. Here's how the various 'charge related' items show on my Natwest Statements:

"SERVICE FEE" ? How much?
"UNNARRGD BORROW F" Yes
"PAID REFERRAL" Yes
"PRF" (as above ?) Yes
"A/C" No, Account Credit(i think)
"REFERRAL CHARGE" Yes
"UNPAID ITEM(S)" Yes
"CR" Credit
"CARD MISUSE" yes
"S/C REFUND" They refunded you so that is taken of probably service fees that you have had debited from your account for a packaged account re Royalties Gold..
"REFUND UNPAID FEE" Need to take that off the amount you are reclaiming under Unpaid Fees
"CHARGES REFUND" See above under refund
"RFND CD MISUE FE" See above under refund
"REFUND" Its a refund
"GTEE CARD PYMT FEE" Yes

Please bare in mind some of the above are for refunds / credits and NOT charges / interest / Debits !

I seem to recall, when I completed my original (moneysavingexpert) spreadsheet, the instructions were that they're (the bank) entitled to charge interest on the overdraft so I believe these (HUGE) figures were all ommitted ? All I actually put on were the 'service fee type / one-off type fees' ?

Do I still show all charges AND their refunds on this form of just ommit these items altogether (as they onviously cancel each other out) ?

I should mention the above list of items and the huge variation in charges etc... Some (e.g. "SERVICE FEE") are for just £6, in many cases, whereas others (e.g. "UNPAID ITEM(S)) are up to £38 each time !

Regarding interest charges during the period between Jan '09 and Sep '09, when the account wasn't even used, at all (and AFTER I'd already pleaded hardship & asked them to please freeze all charges to assist me (Citizens Advise Template Letter) - to no avail I should add !) they were charging me £28 "Maintenance Charge" PER MONTH AND a further interest of approx. £60-£70 PER MONTH ON TOP ! This alone, for this short period, amounted to approx. £800 of fees !

Perhaps you'll advise that I just put EVERYTHING on the spreadsheet BUT this is obviously a huge job and may well take me sometime to finalise !

Thanks Budgie,

R

I have been asked to look at the fees only bit rather than the rest of the questions you have asked.

Maintenance fee is a yes as well btw.

[Budgie]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thanks Nattie and Ame.

RB, hopefully you have all the info needed to sort out your spreadsheets back to 1999.

Regarding the charge refund amounts that appear on your account statements. I suggest that best thing to do is to include all of the charges on the spreadsheet as individual line items but then also include the charge refunds ( as individual line items ) but as a minus figure ( eg -20.00 ). The spreadsheet will then work everything out properly.

Please post up or email me the completed statutory interest version of the spreadsheet and I will do the compound interest version for comparison for you.

It would be very useful if you could scan and email me copies of the statements for 2009 so that I can look and see the impact on the account regarding the continued implementation of charges and interest from when you stopped using the account. There is no rush for this. I will be using that information for some specific arguments within a witness statement and it would be useful to have the actual statements to work from. Don't post these statements up ( scan and email would be best - but remove personal details first please ).

Also, if you have any charge notification letters from Nat West from 2009, a copy of one of those would be useful plus a copy of a similar letter from earlier years. Am interested to see if they have changed the wording used on thise letters to describe the chartges and what they are in respect of and why and how they are being applied. Similarily copies of any correspondance from NatWest where they respond to your requests for refunds etc. Have a look at post 76 on this thread (Charge Notification Letters Required - Legal Beagles) and you will see the sort of thing I am looking for.

Thats its for now, its been great working with you over the last couple of months RB, lets hope we get this situation sorted for you asap.

In the meantime I wish you a very Merry Christmas to you and your Wife and family and a Happy and Prosperous New Year.

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi Budgie,

Hope you had a great Christmas and didn't work too hard.

Just to update you I'm working on the NEW charges spreadsheet - I started at about lunchtime, today (Mon), and have completed 1999 to 2006 - just about to move into 2007 but tiring a bit now !

So far I've carefully sifted through over 400 statements - told you I was a stickler for keeping paper trails etc... !

Probably about another 200 statements to go through and I can then move onto the copying of 2009 statements for you, as requested.

Thanks for all your help and hope to be back to you VERY SOON.

Apologies for the delay, on my part, but this is a far bigger job than I'd anticipated !

Still nothing from Irwin Mitchell and they don'y have too many days left now !

Kindest regards,

R

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi Budgie,

Phew - its just turned midnight and I've FINALLY completed the spreadsheet.

I'll send you a PM now, which I trust is OK ?

I'll get on the other things in the next day or two but hopefully this spreadsheet will help us along, for the time being !

Thanks again, for all your help,

R
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Hi again Budgie,

Just to confirm PM has now been sent, to your previously supplied private e-mail address.

Kindest regards,

R

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

I'd be interested in your thoughts re. the charges, Budgie.

I was amazed at the amount that they collectively made !

Please bear in mind that NW / IM are only chasing the Overdraft (approx 4.5k) BUT Shoosmiths were chasing BOTH the same NW Overdraft AND Loan (approx. 2.5k) - although they've gone very quiet since my CCA request !

Regards,

R.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Hi Ame / Budgie,

Whilst writing one of my 'pending tasks' is an income / expenditure sheet for my Wife

Taking into account Natwest / Irwin Mitchell gave up on me and instead have now targetted her instead do I base this sheet purely on her own income ?

Her income is presently very low (inside the tax threshold !) so would be a real eye-opener for NW / IM - in fact so much so they'd probably give up 'trying to get blood from a stone' !!!!

If I am doing this just for her, as opposed to a joint one then how do I apportion the household bills etc... - do I simply split 50/50 OR pro-rata based on the ratios of my income versus hers ? Hope that makes sense ?

As soon as I hear back I'll get rolling on this, ASAP.

Remember, according to NCCBC, I.M. have until Mon 4th Jan 2010 to respond to our defence - by the way still nothing arrived, as of today (Tue 29th Dec) !

Kind regards & Happy New Year,

R

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

It is a joint debt and as a joint household then you should use the joint figures, HOWEVER It does get complicated when these companies chase both parties seperately so I think you are right and should split the income as you have indicated - pro-rata based on the ratios of income - as in reality thats probably how it works. So if you have a £500 mortgage, and she brings in 10% of your monthly income, put her down for £50 a month, and you down for £450 - so if/when the income sheets are joined together the figures still add up.

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thanks Ame,

I appreciate your advise and I'll get working on this in the next day or two.

Have you heard from Budgie over Xmas ? I hope he's OK ?

Happy New Year & Thanks again,

R

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Havent spoken to him since Xmas Day but he's been on a little bit, am sure he's fine and will be back about once things calm down a bit lol. Don't worry about time scales, we're fine till 4th Jan at least.

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Morning Budgie,

Just to confirm you received my charges spreadsheet safely ?

Thanks & Happy New Year,

Rob

[Budgie]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

I did.

Happy New Year RB.

Will be having a look at spready this evening / tomorrow morning and giving you some feedback.

Now need to find the headache pills !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Budgie

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi Budgie / Ame,

I've been giving some thought to the income / expenditure form - can you please supply me with a link for the best template form for me to actually use ?

I'm aware that I may now be delaying procedures somewhat and apologise.

Thanks for agreeing to look at my charges spreadsheet Budgie and I look forward to your thoughts !

I guess the witness statement and embarrassed letter (nothing on the CPR front !) maybe on the cards as you may recall I.M. only have until Monday (4th jan) to reply yet still nothing at all - unless they surprise us with a reply tomorrow (sat) or Mon, I guess ?

I will phone Northampton, on Tuesday (5th) to CHECK that no reply has been received, perhaps ?

BTW another apology Budgie - do you still want to see copies of my 2009 bank statements ? - I've overlooked this ! Bit of a task to scan and delete info prior to e-mailing as I'm not brilliant at this and theres quite a few of them too !

Interested to hear your thoughts on the chargess - figures far higher than I anticipated !

Kind regards,

R