Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

[Amethyst]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

Stephensons per chance ?

What was their thoughts on the case...solely on the alledged fraud of the agreement ?

[sarafaye]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

My Aunt told the collector about my cousins new address. The collector said he had to collect from my Aunts address as that was where the loan had been taken out.

My Cousin met the first few weeks of payments when my Aunt informed her she would take the payments over. She apparently told her she was now responsible and it would help her out. My Cousin was obviously happy to go along with this!!!! She was a spoilt brat.

My aunt was not a guarantor in any way. She had only one loan with them and that had already been paid for.

She introduced/referred her Daughter for the loan in question. Incidently, they are both adamant the loan was for £2000 only.

Goodness knows where the third loan mentioned comes from. There only exists the two loans i have mentioned.

Duponts have stopped the collection activity after the threat of harrassment and police involvement.

It was only by accident that i was there when the collector called last year and it was Holy Friday. I asked my Aunt why she had a loan anyway to which she replied that it was my cousins. But all documentation had my aunts name on it and she swears she has never signed anything by way of guarantor or transfer or exchange etc etc etc........

Hope this all makes some kind of sense.
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yes, stephensons. I'll scan the papers through.

righty on here had helped with sound advice and has pretty much most of events.

[Amethyst]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

2463 - could there be the possibility that your aunts previous loan was being paid off with the new loan ? What was the purpose of your cousin taking out the loan ?


Yep Righty told us u might be popping over

[sarafaye]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

My aunt states there was only one loan she had and that was for 200.00. it was a xmas thing. She had no outstanding debts.

My Cousin had the loan for a trip to the States. It didn't happen though cos she met her husband to be and I think they ended up in Spain instead.

[Amethyst]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

Other bit - in your first post you say your aunt was paying £10 per week to the doorstep guy over the 12 years - was it slightly over that (as it was meant to be £50 per month over 144 months = the £7200) so it was paid up until March 2007 from Feb 1995, so the 12 years ? so where did the £1610 remainder that they wrote off come from ? (yes i realise your cousin paid for the first 2 years but basically payments were made weekly over 12 years overall )

I assume you did a full SAR on the company in your aunts name ...did much come back from that?

[sarafaye]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

this is the letter from stephensons. its an attachment.

[sarafaye]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

this is the letter of appeal to obtain funding.

[sarafaye]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

This is the result of the full SAR.

[sarafaye]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

I will scan the statement of account they supplied tomorrow.

Just realised the time. gonna make a cuppa.

Thank you so much for having a look.

[Amethyst]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

In the letter from stephensons they mention you have a claim that your aunt was mistakenly paying a debt that was not hers. She wasn't she knew it was your cousins from day 1, and she offered to pay it on her behalf.

The converstion your Aunt had with London Scottish just after your cousin had moved out seems to be the important factor. LS wouldn't just be able to start collection from another address without the person who owed the debt (your cousin) requesting this yes if your aunt hadnt paid it then they would have shifted it over if it was in cousins name. She seemed quite happy for your aunt to pay it and your aunt seemed quite happy to pay it for her.

If you obtain a refund of the full amounts you are requesting - will it not be that LSB start chasing your cousin - she has even written a letter confirming that the debt is hers not your aunts which at a guess would cancel out any limitations act that may apply.

Don't know if I am being over simplistic, but your cousin borrowed money paid it for 2 years and moved out, your aunt paid it off weekly for her over 10 years (with your cousins and your aunts knowledge). Its now paid off.

Theres an excess of £1610 which has been written off. Where has that come from - I would assume the odd missed weeks payment.

Yes the interest rate is ridiculous - thats doorstep loans for you. Your aunt sounds like she arranged the loan with the ls guy for your cousin without going back and being there the paperwork seems to suggest she took it in her name = possibly some difficulty with your cousin, or even simply thinking at the time that would make it easier as she was still making payments on her own loan.

Interesting to see the statements (even if they do only go back to 2004).

It does seem to me, and sorry, that you are trying to get out of this on a technicality. And other than being pished at the APR and probably pished at your cousin for letting your aunt pay this all off.

What are you trying to acheive ?

[sarafaye]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

Amethyst

Thanks for your comments. My aunt agreed with my cousin to pay it off but only because she believed it was her debt because of the address of the loan. Yes, my cousin must have been quite chuffed she no longer had payments to make.

Everything written last night was mainly copy and paste as I got the info at the time of original posting. Things got much clearer as i questioned both my Aunt and Cousin. Is this making sense.

My aunt had no payments to make on her own loan as she only ever had one for 200.00 and this had already been cleared and paid for. there has only ever been the 2 loans at her address. Dont know where LS get this 3rd loan from.


Have inserted the docs now after editing details. to include the statements also.
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I was present at my Aunts house when collector called on Good Friday 2007.

Cca request sent in April 2007.

Statement of account arrives with the following info.

Loan date 14 March 1993

Loan amount £2,463
Loan? £874 possibly insurance
Loan interest £3,864



Letter to London Scottish 14th May 2007

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company.

Dear Sirs

Ref: A/C ***********

With regard to the documents that you sent me in relation to my request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I am still waiting for the signed executed agreement. You sent me a partial statement of account.

“(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner.”

Be also advised that your statutory time period has elapsed and you have now committed a criminal offence.

NO further action can be taken on this account until such a time as the original SIGNED EXECUTED documents are made available to me.

This account is still in dispute and I forbid the passing of any data to third parties, if any data has been processed illegally I shall take appropriate action.
Further if you cannot supply the proper documents and you have entered any defaults against my name I require that you remove them immediately.

I shall be carefully considering my options and next actions.

I await your response.






Letter to London Scottish 30th May 2007


I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company.

Dear Sirs

I refer to my letter dated 26/03/2007 which was delivered via Recorded Delivery to your offices.

You must supply me with a signed true copy of the alleged agreement. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

I have given you more than enough time to supply the original signed agreement and you have now exceeded the allowed time. By not supplying the documentation I believe you have now committed a criminal act under the legislation contained within s. 77 (1) and s. 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Therefore, I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company or to any company that you may claim to represent. You have taken unlawful payments from me as the statement of account will show.
I require the following action from you:

All payments made to date to this account should be refunded in full, including interest at the rate of 8% per annum.

After a full refund of all payments with interest and compensation are received by me, you will be required under Section 10 and Section 12 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease and desist all manual and automatic processing of my data within your company and any other company within your group.

Failure to comply with my requests will result in offences committed under the Data Protection Act, 1998 being referred to the Information Commissioner. Failure to repay the sum of money you received from me will also result in this matter being escalated with the Office of Fair Trading, Trading Standards, the Financial Services Authority and the Credit Services Association.

My prime issue with you is to recover money you unlawfully received from me.

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my requests in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

Without ambiguity, I trust I make myself perfectly clear, and look forward to resolving this matter amicably.




Response from London Scottish dated 14th June 2007



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July I send full SAR

August 13th 2007 response




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Will get back a little later, visitors interrupting me

[Amethyst]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

Okay

Who made the £2k+ payment in 1998 ?

[Amethyst]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

Would be useful to see you thread on ccs (I assume its in a private area) and others thoughts/views on the case, might give a better idea where you are going with it.

What are stephenson's doing with regards your case now ?

[sarafaye]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

rest of the statements.


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1st Oct sent this letter

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Sir/Madam

It is important that you give this letter your immediate and prompt attention.

Thank you for your letter dated 13th August 2007 and enclosures in response to my Subject Access Request.

With reference to the above Account No:

It is my belief that this agreement has been unenforceable since the outset of the agreement of 28/02/1995. Consulting my legal advisers, I am advised that I am on very good ground to proceed to litigation and seek Restitution of all monies unlawfully demanded by you and received by you through your agent. (Collected weekly in cash)

The total sum repayable.
Principal sum £2,463.00
Insurance £874.00
Interest £3,864.00
TOTAL £7200.00

This letter is a formal statement of my intention to proceed to litigation unless I receive an acceptable offer of settlement by 2nd October 2007 (28 days)



14th January 2008 letter to London Scottish

Before this next letter went, it came to light that my Great Aunt was NEVER the debtor. It was in fact her Daughter who then left home to get married. So there could never have been a Credit agreement. My Aunt merely carried on paying the collector who said it was easier for him to continue collecting from her address (commission involved) and somehow all correspondence was addressed to my Aunt.

My Aunt is in her 70’s and fairly frail which is why I got involved when I saw the collector at her door on Good Friday 2007. She has been paying this loan since 1995 at £10.00 pw

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Sir/Madam

Reference Account***********
Please find enclosed copies of all correspondence between myself and London Scottish Bank including letters addressed to your branch outlet “Everything Financial”. Please also find enclosed copies of letters given to your collection agent (harassment notice and dispute letter)

The harassment notice was issued to your collecting agent after he was politely informed that the alleged account was in dispute, this took place on GOOD FRIDAY 2007.
I believe this in itself is classed as unlawfulbeing a public holiday.
He was quite rude to both myself and my Husband and insisted we still HAD to make a payment whilst disputing with Head Office. He threatened Solicitor action which disturbed me also. Both myself and my Husband are in our 70’s, not in great health either.
Your Agents' actions are contemptible; in breach of a number of guidelines on collection practices, and are perceived to be harassing both psychologically, and physically intimidating; and further, are unlawful in threatening legal action whilst an account is placed in dispute.

I now wish to bring the following to your attention;

The reason London Scottish Bank are unable to locate any documentation for the alleged debt is because this account has never belonged to me.
I did not sign for this alleged loan, nor agree to any terms or conditions associated with this debt. I merely arranged with the collecting agent at the time that since I was handing over payments from my address that it would be easier to transfer everything into my name. The collecting agent was most willing as I imagine it maintained his commissionand successful collection targets to continue collecting from my address.

I am most disturbed that you insist on processing my personal data with the Credit Reference Agencies and my Legal Advisors are encouraging that this matter be reported to all relevant authorities. It is my intention to so report the actions of London & Scottish who have acted unlawfully and have committed several offences and continue to do so with the Credit Reference Agencies.

I think you will agree that London & Scottish have been afforded every opportunity to resolve this matter amicably and without recourse to litigation. However, London & Scottish have chosen not to take advantage of this opportunity and leave me with no alternative but to inform you of my intended Court Action.

London Scottish Bank has unlawfully taken monies from me and as such, I require repayment of those sums taken.

Whilst I acknowledge the 'offer' noted in your previous communication, I am aware that this could be picked up by a Debt Collection Agency sometime in the future whilst you insist on processing my personal data.
I must advise that there is no legal obligation, no agreement (enforceable or otherwise,) nor any statutory reference in enforcing this alleged debt upon me... There has never been any express permission granted by me to you or your collecting agent, to access, process, disclose or record any data whatsoever under the Data Protection Act 1984 or 1988.
As such, and as data controllers, you are most certainly in breach of most all principled rights afforded me under these acts.
With your 'learned' understanding of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 under section 77 or 78, I would suggest that further consideration should be given to the Data Protection Act legislation; especially under Schedule 2.

To summarise - I believe it would assist you in further considering my claim as previously advised, with the following points:-

1) There never has been any document, application, agreement whatsoever completed, signed or accepted by me or offered to you.
2) There has never been (as is legally required) any expressly, or freely given authority by me for you London Scottish Bank to access, search, process, disclose or make addition to any credit history files kept with any credit reference agency. You therefore have NO LEGAL RIGHT to maintain ANY file regarding me. PERIOD.
3) Whilst you allege that there is 'still a debt owing', you have no legal (or otherwise) powers of enforcement against me in this accounts' regard.
4) Amounts paid under a mistake of law; entirely unsupported in any way shape or form MAY be recovered at the cost of the Lender/Creditor.
5) Harassment and oppression are summarily fineable offences if proven in court. I have such proof.
6) Threats of legal action or other, attempting to enforce the unenforceable or undue, are oppressive, malicious and in breach of many regulations - both Civil and regulatory.

This incomplete catalogue of errors and breaches committed by London Scottish Bank (and any other) will be used in court, should I not receive an amicable settlement as detailed previously.

As I am an aged pensioner, I would prefer that this matter is resolved outside of any court room - rather than consume the courts time and resources, but can assure you that I will not hesitate at this time to proceed to court if no settlement is preferred within 14 days of receipt of this letter.

I assume that you can fully understand what legal position you are in, and that you have no legal strength to substantiate or maintain the aforementioned errors or breaches.
I would ask for your final and considered response within 14 days of receipt of this letter.



24th January 2008 response

Please note the discrepancies on this letter. Full SAR in July caused them to say they had NO documentation prior to 2004, hence the reason they wiped the remaining balance of £1610. Now in this letter they produce a credit agreement. Please note the silly dates. The dodgy agreement is in pen, and a lot of tippex has been used.





This was then received, undated. Duponts by the way is a trading name of …….. guess who?? LONDON SCOTTISH!!!!!!!!

[Amethyst]

Re: Sarafaye and London Scottish disputed debt

What names are entered in Principal Borrowe and Borrower on the credit agreement ? They both your aunts ?