Bailiff advice

[Cap1nhand]

Hi folks, I had a council tax debt that went to enforcement. I was then in a position to pay the debt in full which I did directly to the council, I spoke to them as well informing them that I had paid in full online, they told me I would need to pay the compliance fee of £75 directly to the bailiff company. I never actually got round to doing this.
Today 4 or 5 months after paying the council I have had a hand delivered letter stating that they have attended and want the £75 plus £235, can they legally charge me for visiting to collect the £75 pound which isn't a council tax debt.
Regards Cap.

[suffering]

Re: Bailiff advice

Hi Cap 1 in hand You said it went to enforcement was it a liability order? Basically what ever they are enforcing if it doesn't include "Fees" (which it won't) they can't enforce them. Note. Fees and costs are two entirely different things. Its a con job and the courts council and enforcement agents are all in on it and they try to pretend they are costs, there has not been a act of parliament passed which says fees must be paid as they are not means tested.

This is my understanding of the above i am not legally qualified

[bizzybob]

Re: Bailiff advice

Under the 2014 Regulations the Liability Order is not settled if the Council is paid direct with just the outstanding Council tax, once the debt is passed to the bailiff At that point the Compliance Fee of £75 is due and the council must pay that fee to the bailiff and the LO is not satisfied, If compliance fee not paid, or arrangement not made Bailiff will attend to Take Control of Goods, then the £235 Enforcement Fee can be added. Yes he can atttend for those fees as the direct payment after passed to bailiff was short by £75.

[warwick65]

Re: Bailiff advice

At the risk of sticking my neck out and into something I am not qualified for

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/15/schedule/12

Para

62
62

(1)

Regulations may make provision for the recovery by any person from the debtor of amounts in respect of costs of enforcement-related services.

(2)

The regulations may provide for recovery to be out of proceeds or otherwise.

(3)

The amount recoverable under the regulations in any case is to be determined by or under the regulations.

(4)

The regulations may in particular provide for the amount, if disputed, to be assessed in accordance with rules of court.

(5)

“Enforcement-related services” means anything done under or in connection with an enforcement power, or in connection with obtaining an enforcement power, or any services used for the purposes of a provision of this Schedule or regulations under it.

So therefore the fee of £75 was still owing and as such can be enforced.

Because
para 50 (3)

The amount outstanding is the sum of these—

(a)

the amount of the debt which remains unpaid (or an amount that the creditor agrees to accept in full satisfaction of the debt);

(b)

any amounts recoverable out of proceeds in accordance with regulations under paragraph 62 (costs).

[suffering]

Re: Bailiff advice

Ok lets try a different angle
;Paragraph 7(1) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 states;

(1)An enforcement agent may not take control of goods unless the debtor has been given notice.

Note that it says "GIVEN" not posted not pushed through the door given
Paragraph 3 says the enforcement agent must keep a record of the time it was given

Notice of enforcement

7

(1)

An enforcement agent may not take control of goods unless the debtor has been given notice.

(2)

Regulations must state—

(a)

the minimum period of notice;

(b)

the form of the notice;

(c)

what it must contain;

(d)

how it must be given;

(e)

who must give it.

(3)

The enforcement agent must keep a record of the time when the notice is given.

(4)

If regulations authorise it, the court may order in prescribed circumstances that the notice given may be less than the minimum period.

(5)

The order may be subject to conditions.

[suffering]

Re: Bailiff advice

so assuming you were not given a notice of enforcement if you sign a statutory declaration at a solicitors (cost £5) the onus is on the enforcement agent to prove otherwise Game Set Match
i Know because i've done it! albeit was a motoring offence the same rules apply

And because the payment was made prior to any notice being given no fees are due

[warwick65]

Re: Bailiff advice

Would given be included in the interpretations Act section 7 which suggests posted would do. Don't know, not sure, just want the OP to be totally sure.

As for the technicalities the OP actually says the notice was hand delivered so maybe, and I don't know, paying the 75 tomorrow would do it.

I will ill leave it to the qualified

[suffering]

Re: Bailiff advice

As paragraph 3 reads the enforcement agent must keep a record of the time the notice was given, not posted.

[Milo]

Re: Bailiff advice

so assuming you were not given a notice of enforcement if you sign a statutory declaration at a solicitors (cost £5) the onus is on the enforcement agent to prove otherwise Game Set Match
i Know because i've done it! albeit was a motoring offence the same rules apply

And because the payment was made prior to any notice being given no fees are due

Suffering,

I have been reading your replies to queries and it does seem that you may have been reading one particular website (whose name I don't intend posting). The advice is not accurate.

In relation to a Notice of Enforcement, it is certainly not the case that a Statutory Declaration will suffice. If it were, then everyone would simply claim that they had not received a notice.

For the avoidance of doubt, the enforcement agent does NOT have to PROVE that a notice was sent. He merely has to rely upon Section 7 of the Interpretation.

[charitynjw]

Re: Bailiff advice

As paragraph 3 reads the enforcement agent must keep a record of the time the notice was given, not posted.

Suffering,

I have been reading your replies to queries and it does seem that you may have been reading one particular website (whose name I don't intend posting). The advice is not accurate.

In relation to a Notice of Enforcement, it is certainly not the case that a Statutory Declaration will suffice. If it were, then everyone would simply claim that they had not received a notice.

For the avoidance of doubt, the enforcement agent does NOT have to PROVE that a notice was sent. He merely has to rely upon Section 7 of the Interpretation.

This is not my usual area, so I'm not familiar with the legislation.
But I did find

Service of notices

2.—(1) Where any notice which is required or authorised by these Regulations to be given to or served on any person falls to be given or served by or on behalf of the Common Council it may be given or served in any manner in which it might be given or served under section 233 of the Local Government Act 1972(1) if the Common Council were a local authority within the meaning of that section.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../2/made#f00002

and

233Service of notices by local authorities.

(1)

Subject to subsection (8) below, subsections (2) to (5) below shall have effect in relation to any notice, order or other document required or authorised by or under any enactment to be given to or served on any person by or on behalf of a local authority or by an officer of a local authority.

(2)

Any such document may be given to or served on the person in question either by delivering it to him, or by leaving it at his proper address, or by sending it by post to him at that address.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1972/70/section/233

Also, From Holwell Securities Ltd v Hughes [1973]

The view of Mr Justice Plowman in Re 88 Berkeley Road, N.W.9 (1971 Chancery, 648) that "served" meant "given" was not disputed.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/1973/5.html

[suffering]

Re: Bailiff advice

Thanks Milo and Charitynjw in response like i said mine was a motoring offence, not council related and this was my experience. As i see it the enforcement agent has to prove the notice was given by showing a record of it. Marston holdings / collectica enforcement agent for HMCTS have confirmed in writing they have sent all documents back and are no longer pursuing the claim.
as i posted previously paragraph 7 (4) states quite clearly
The enforcement agent must keep a record of the time when the notice is given.

[suffering]

Re: Bailiff advice

Some strange things are going on with these collection agencies and the courts collection departments trying to rush things through to catch people out. I was told by a member of staff at the collections and enforcement centre (situated about 10 mile away from the court building) that they not the court had issued the warrant and it was with Marstons when i asked who had signed it she hung up. In reply to my letter sent under the rights to information act Marstons said the court hold it. The court have so far ignored my request of who issued it who signed it and what position they hold..... Odd to say the least.

[Cap1nhand]

Re: Bailiff advice

Thanks everyone for your advice, sorry I haven't replied to your posts sooner as I have been away.
Im thinking the best thing I can do is just pay it all and get it over with.
Cheers

[Milo]

Re: Bailiff advice

The enforcement agent must keep a record of the time when the notice is given.

It would be very obvious indeed for the enforcement company to view the client's account and see the date that the Notice of Enforcement was given. It really is that simple.

[suffering]

Re: Bailiff advice

Sorry to disagree it's not that obvious and not that simple if like I did you sign a declaration the enforcement agent would have to prove otherwise. And let's face it the agents are not giving the notice 9 times out of 10 ( I certainly wasn't given one in any shape or form)which should be given 7 days prior to enforcing, as time again you read they are coming before 7 days has elapsed since the warrant was issued and in some cases straight from court.