Bailiff advice

[wales01man]

Re: Bailiff advice

Does this help the OP? the bailiffs will produce anything if needs to get their money unless it goes to court what real chance does the OP have

[Milo]

Re: Bailiff advice

Sorry to disagree it's not that obvious and not that simple if like I did you sign a declaration the enforcement agent would have to prove otherwise.

Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, bailiffs aren't the only ones that lie....debtors doe the same as well and further still will even lie on a sworn Witness statement (as this person appears to have done on the Out of Time witness statement to the Traffic Enforcement Centre).

The following is from a new decision from the Local Government Ombudsman's office.

Birmingham City Council:


http://www.lgo.org.uk/decisions/tran...ies/16-011-443

1. The complainant, whom I shall call Mr X, complains about the Council’s involvement of bailiffs in the recovery of an unpaid traffic penalty. He says he did not receive the original penalty notice or the subsequent correspondence. He wants the Council to remove the bailiff’s charges.

What I found

1. Mr X says bailiffs contacted him about an unpaid moving traffic penalty. He says he did not receive the penalty notice or subsequent letters and the Council passed the matter to bailiffs when he was too late to appeal. He says the Council used the incorrect address for him.
2. The Council says it has records of telephone contact with Mr X the day following the issue of the penalty and after it sent subsequent certificates and notices. Mr X asked for advice on the procedure in these conversations but did not appeal or pay the penalty which then increased. Mr X did make an out of time statement to the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) which is the court which deals with these penalties. The TEC rejected his statement because the evidence showed he had been aware of the penalty and charge certificate. The documents referred to the correct address and Mr X responded to them which indicated he did receive them.
3. Mr X made a payment arrangement with the bailiffs and he says they keep asking him for money. If he pays as agreed in his arrangement then there should be no reason for any further calls by the bailiffs. There is no evidence of fault on the Council’s part in the way that it pursued Mr X for payment of the penalty.

[suffering]

Re: Bailiff advice

I certainly am not encouraging people to lie but if you genuinely have not been given an enforcement notice by the enforcement agent, it can be challenged I did and it saved me a £235 and in fairness to Marston they realised and accepted their position and backed off

[outlawlgo]

Re: Bailiff advice

The bailiff can take a seperate court action to recover any fees due and will undoubtedly win.

Recover them from the council you mean don't you?

[outlawlgo]

Re: Bailiff advice

I don't believe a bailiff has ever tried to use court proceedings to cover his fee, but theoretically he can do. No different to if you refuse to pay the milkman at the end of the week. The money is still owed.

There is a significant difference between a milkman being due his payment and a bailiff. The former would be asked by the customer to deliver milk, I doubt he would do so on the off-chance. On the other hand an alleged debtor has not asked for the bailiff's services, it was the council who did that.

[Cap1nhand]

Re: Bailiff advice

Hi folks, I see this thread has got lively.
Can anyone actually advise me if the £75 compilance fee automatically added when my council tax debt went to enforcement can be enforced by a visiting bailiff hence increasing the amount owed by £235 for the bailiff to attend.
If not I will pay them the £75 pound that I owe. It just seems wrong that they can charge £235 to chase a £75 fee when, my way of thinking was that the £75 pound could be pursued like any other debt eg. small claims court, but I didnt think they could enforce the payment and charge another fee when the council debt had been paid in full.

[Butler]

Re: Bailiff advice

If you paid the original debt before the date on the NOE then the £75 isn't due as the agent had not taken receipt of the case. If you paid after the the date of the NOE but before the bailiff visited, you are liable for the £75. However, the £235 isn't due as you paid the amount outstanding (as quoted in the regulations), and the enforcement power ended and the bailiff cannot take a further enforcement step.

[Cap1nhand]

Re: Bailiff advice

So if I pay the £75 that I believe I do owe they cannot take any further enforcement steps including charging me £235 for attending and posting a enforcement notice through my door.

[Butler]

Re: Bailiff advice

Due entirely to time restraints (and nothing else) the court were unable to make a final decision on the matter of costs. That is the only matter that is outstanding.

But you said on the other thread that this cost the claimant 'many thousands of pounds'. This is precisely why it would be beneficial to post up these judgements so we can all see what was actually said rather than snippets and misinterpretations. I find it astounding that you won't do this.

- - - Updated - - -

So if I pay the £75 that I believe I do owe they cannot take any further enforcement steps including charging me £235 for attending and posting a enforcement notice through my door.

When did you pay the original debt? Before the date of the NOE or after the date of the NOE but before a visit?

[Cap1nhand]

Re: Bailiff advice

Paid after NOE but many months before the visit.

[Butler]

Re: Bailiff advice

Paid after NOE but many months before the visit.

The moment you paid the original debt the enforcement power ended. This means you are liable for the £75 but the bailiff cannot take a further enforcement step to recover it. He therefore cannot charge a further £235 enforcement fee.

[Cap1nhand]

Re: Bailiff advice

Ok thankyou for you help.

[Cap1nhand]

Re: Bailiff advice

Hi folks, a little update on this.
As I previously said I paid the outstanding amount to the council direct online and this left a balance of zero. I checked my account online today and the balance is now £75.00 which is the compliance fee, this was added back to my account a couple of weeks after I had paid.
The enforcement notice lists the client debt and the total paid as the same but they have a balance they are pursuing of £310 for compliance and enforcement fees.
I presume I have to bite the bullet and pay the full £310.
Cheers.

[outlawlgo]

Re: Bailiff advice

Hi folks, a little update on this.
As I previously said I paid the outstanding amount to the council direct online and this left a balance of zero. I checked my account online today and the balance is now £75.00 which is the compliance fee, this was added back to my account a couple of weeks after I had paid....

It would be interesting to find out under whose authority the council is able to raise a sum, which is not council tax, on the debtor's council tax account.

[Cap1nhand]

Re: Bailiff advice

Well that is what has happened, I couldnt believe it. I asked the chap at the council and he confirmed that the balance was zero after my payment and that some days later (cant remember the exact date) the balance was £75.00. He said he didnt know why and said would I like to speak to recovery dept which I did. They were totally unhelpful and just kept repeating that I had to deal with/pay the collection company directly.
I am annoyed about this because I intended to pay the £75.00 as it was genuinely due, what I took exception to was the extra £235.00 for enforcement, thats why I checked my balance with the council as I was expecting it to be zero. The enforcement notice even says Client debt 1xxx and total paid as 1xxx exactly the same.
I was not sure of my position so had asked for advice, the liability order was for the amount not including the compliance fee and that had been paid in full so I felt that enforcement could not be used to collect the compliance fee, I would have paid the compliance fee and refused to pay the £235 but of course when my balance had gone back up by the £75 it is then still part of the debt owed under the liability order and my partner did not want them attending while we were home and maybe trying to take a vehicle or something like that so I have paid the full £310