Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

[Chetna]

Hello Everyone.

I am new to this situation as well as this forum and hoping to get some help.

My Car was clamped due to a debt owned by previous owner while I was parked on the road near St. John's wood on the 13th May.

When I came out at 11pm after frantically calling the number given on the note left on my car said they had an immobilization order against the Number plate even though the fine may not be in my name.

Next day I was asked to send a proof of ownership. I sent the V5 document and also told that I had bought this car 2 years ago from my housemate. Since then the car has been taxed, MOT'ed and insured by me.

I was also asked the insurance certificate. When I sent that I was told that they have check with my insurance company and that the insurance does not exist. It clearly shows in MIB records that my car is insured. I called up my insurance company (Admiral) and aked why they said that, I was told under no circumstances they will share anything about my car or the policy holder with a third party unless I give them a written consent.

I am confused how they claimed to get info from my Insurance. The Newlyn bailiffs are now asking me for a written consent to be able to contact my insurance company for any info they may need which I have refused because they lied and threatened me and have caused me so much in convenience. I have told them I will only share that info with the Police or the Court.

Its been 10 days and they are refusing to accept the V5 doc as the proof of ownership and insisting on insurance company access. However I have challeneged that the insurance is not a proof of ownership either because the owner may not necessarily be on the insurance so does that mean they will take the insurer as the owner.

I have contacted the council who after much pressure sent me the court order which says the LB of Harrow as the applicant and the previous owner as the debt owner, However they have refused to get involved. They are asking me to take legal action against Newlyn but according to my understanding Newlyn are the agents for LB HArrow.

Newlyn has threatend me that they will sell the car by 29th May if I don't give them access to my insurance.

This has caused me so much distress and loss of earnings. I got home at 1.30 am the night my car was clamped. I have reported them to FCA. I have contacted Police to my local MP but haven't had much help. WHy am I being penalised like this?? Do I have no rights? What kind of justice system is this?

How do I get my car back? Can they sell my car? How long can they keep it for? SHould I ask my Insurance company to contact Newlyn? What are my rights? Please help.

Chetna

[ahflibra]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

Bump

[Kati]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

@Milo [MENTION=60180]L.Bizzy[/MENTION] @Big Al can anyone advise please?

[Guest]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

A formal complaint is required to be sent immediately to the council. Copy Newlyns in on the complaint.

State the situation as per post #1. Advise how you bought the vehicle over 2 years ago from a friend. It was a very informal purchase and no official receipt was ever asked for or given. Whilst the V5 is not deemed proof of ownership, it certainly helps give a strong indication of who the owner is.

If Newlyns still wish to persist down this avenue, there is nothing to stop them releasing the clamp and that you will be prepared to enter into a controlled goods agreement (CGA). To continue to deprive you of your vehicle is not only punitive but a clear breach of the Schedule 12 procedure in an attempt to hold a gun to your head to force you to pay.

There is no difference between a CGA and a car being clamped-Both place the goods in the custody of the law. Because of the obvious doubt in this situation, common sense and decency should be applied. In any case, an insurance policy is not proof of ownership, in much the same way that a V5 isn't.

You appreciate that bailiff companies hear this on a regular basis but on this occasion it is true. (if you haven't received a notice of enforcement NOE) add the following: I would also point out that I have not received a NOE for this matter. Legislation clearly prescribes that if a debtor does not receive a NOE, then everything that follows is non-compliant.

Finally, Newlyns are threatening to remove the car for sale imminently. If this threat is true then Newlyns will only be exposing themselves to extra costs. In English law, a person is innocent until proven guilty-The same applies here. A bailiff cannot simply take an innocent persons vehicle and sell it based purely on the assumption that the same person owns the car now as did more than 2 years ago..

If the council are unwilling or unable to uphold the complaint, ask them to advise if there is a Stage 2 to their complaints procedure or whether you are now free to take the matter to the Ombudsman.

Not only is being (wrongly) deprived of your vehicle a great inconvenience but it is also costing you a great deal of time and money. Is this what the council and Newlyns are prepared to inflict on totally innocent victims? Repeat that you are prepared to enter into a CGA until the matter is resolved.

Get both copies sent via email and follow them up with a hard copy via the post. The letter should be addressed to the CEO of the council and underneath just put CC Newlyns. Head it "Formal Complaint".

[Chetna]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

Hi L. Bizzy,

Thanks for your response.

I have already made a complaint to the council's CEO who initially said that they will stop all action until the matter is investigated but later said in their legal final response is that I should take legal action against newlyn and they cannot do anything about it.

I have spoken to a few people who give advice on Bailiff actions and they have advised me to cut the clamp. Can I still take the council as well as Newlyn to court if I do that?

Also newlyn has used an illegal ANPR van to trace the car numberplate because the bailiff had no idea who owns the car when he clamped it. They lied to me that its been clamped due to the warrant against the number plate!

I have made a formal complaint to the Financial Conduct Authority as well for newlyn and in the process to making a compaint against the council to the Ombudsment.

Should I cut the clamp or wait and fight this?

Regards

[bizzybob]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

Do not cut the clamp, they will do you for criminal damage, also do not be tempted to go for any injunction. I would contact your local councillor to look at wshat their appointed agent Newlyn are doing and also let the council know that they are 100% liable jointly and severally for their agent Newlyn, so if Nerwelyn sell they are also jointly liable for any flak down the line.

[seduraed]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

At the start chetna said that he had bought the car from a housemate . Cold the housemate supply a sworn statement that they had sold the car the date and the amount . Is Chetna still living at the address of the debtor? He needs to pressure on the Debtor to pay the bill. If they share the same address it may be more complicated as the EA may see the change of ownership as an attempt to avoid the risk of getting the asset seized . The other posters a right keep at the council EA . Take the usual precautions of recording ll calls and sending letters signed for and all emails us the sysytem that shows they have ben opened. If you are at extra expense log it . to the penny and obtain receipts. So extra bus fares, taxi fares, car hire costs. etc.

[Guest]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

Do not cut the clamp unless you really need the car. Write to the CEO again in response to the rubbish he/she has previously sent.

Advise that Newlyns are acting as agents for the council and that under the Schedule 12 procedure, the principal (creditor) is ALWAYS responsible for the actions of its agent. Paragraph 10 of Schedule 12 states clearly that goods may only be controlled if they belong to the debtor. Newlyns have a responsibility and a duty to act with both care and diligence. In this instance, it is wholly unreasonable to deprive you of your vehicle, based purely on the assumption that ownership has remained the same as it was more than 2 years ago. A v5 has been produced which, whilst you accept is not proof of ownership, it is usually the case with privately owned vehicles that the registered keeper is also the debtor. Newlyns also have the ability to confirm with the DVLA when the latest keeper was registered and this is something that they do when it suits them. If they were to check with the DVLA, they would see that the registration took place AFTER the PCN but way BEFORE enforcement commenced.

Due to the strong likleyhood that you are indeed the owner, you now ask the council to remove the clamp immediately to save you from further inconvenience and expense. Off er to enter into a CGA as an alternative. Although you are not the debtor, as registered keeper, you are able to do so under 14(1)(c) Of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 (TCGR). Advise that there is no difference between a clamped vehicle and a CGA-They both amount to the vehicle being in the custody of the law. To continue to allow the vehicle to remain clamped, despite obvious doubts as to who is the legal owner is nothing more than punitive. This will allow you use of your vehicle whilst you obtain further proof of ownership.


You further advise that the National Standards for Enforcement Agents states:

"where a claim of third party ownership is made, the third party should be given clear instructions on the process required to recover their goods"

Newlyns have not given me any indication of how you can go about getting this mess unravelled. Indeed, Newlyns have said little other than if you don't pay them what they are demanding, your vehicle will be sold imminently. You now ask that you be provided with clear instructions.

Advise that you are contacting your local councillor and that you are sending him/her a copy of this letter. A copy is also being sent to Newlyns. State that you now hope that common sense and decency will prevail. As there is an opportunity to enter into a CGA whilst this matter is resolved, there is no reason whatsoever for the vehicle to remain clamped.

Should the council continue to take this unreasonable stance, you wish to give notice that an application will be made under Part 6 of the TCGR and that Newlyns should now be instructed to place on hold any plans to sell the vehicle.

[Guest]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

Just to add-A copy of the insurance policy should be sent if you have it. This may well be enough to secure the release of the vehicle. Other evidence Newlyns regularly ask for are:
A copy of the advert, advertising the sale of the car
Evidence of a financial transaction
A copy of the receipt of sale.

Obviously people used to switch ownership/registration once they got sniff of bailiff involvement. In your case, you bought the car way before bailiffs became involved. Other things that may help would include evidence that you paid for the MOT's or Tax on the car.

I appreciate that 2 years down the line, there will be no receipt or ways of tracing the passage of money, especially if it was a cash sale.

Your first action should be to get the clamp removed. After that, you will have a bit more breathing space in order to prove ownership. It is important to offer to enter into the CGA as an alternative. Finally, perhaps you should ask if a HPI check has been carried out and if not, perhaps one should be.

[bizzybob]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

One other thing to bear in mind is this is LB Harrow, and Newlyn, they have previous form for muppetry like this, so complaint copied to local member who should be contacted ASAP and your shiny new MP.

[Chetna]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

So this is what I have done.

Contacted my friend who is filing the PE2 and PE3 forms and sending to the court to stop bailiff action and I have now cancelled the tax and insurance on the car. I decided not to cut the clamp as I do not want to be arrested and go through more trauma than I already have.

My friend is also making a statutary declaration at the court that she has sold the car to me. Will that help?

I have already provided Newlyn with the car insurance documents as well as the V5.

Regards
Chetna

[teaboy2]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

Why cancel the tax and insurance?

[paulajayne]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

Leaving an untaxed / uninsured vehicle on the public highway is an offence.

[Chetna]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

What choice have I been left with? I had to buy insurance on my neice's car in order to drive it. I can't keep paying for the tax of the vehicle while its clamped and in the possession of the Bailiffs!

My friend has contacted the court and has been asked to file a PE2 and PE3 form. I am making a small court claims towards Newlyns and the council.

What do u suggest? Should I re pay for the insurance and tax for the car? I am so confused? I am already going through so much and then to continue to to pay for the insurance and tax is a nightmare.

Thanks for your advice regarding not cutting the clamp. I think I saved myself from a lot of trouble!

Regards
Chetna

[teaboy2]

Re: Car clamped due to previous owner's Debt

Its still not grounds for you to commit an offense - which you will be doing if you cancel insurance and tax.

Keep the insurance and tax (if you don't you'll make it worse for yourself), unless you want to be done for that!!

You can reclaim any costs you incurred from the bailiff! including tax, insurance equivalent to the time you couldn't use the car.