Help with Newlyn please

[wales01man]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

If they do not pass on fees whatdo the bailiffs do have any councils confirmed they fees no longer Exist?

[Big Al]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

Oh the bailiff's are free to pursue a civil case if they so wish, they just can't use the warrant to enforce the fees any longer. And yes, every council asked has said that fees are removed if the warrant is returned.

[Guest]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

I find it hard to believe that Bailiffs enter into agreements that allow the Bailiffs fees if legally owed by a debtor are not payed.after all if A council calls back all debts passed to a Bailiff they would be sending letter/making visits for free .

If a debt is recalled, it is no longer "legally owed". In the case of paying the council directly, there is dispute as to whether the fees are legally owed. I personally argue that they are not, however, many argue that they are. It will take a court case to determine this and set a precedent. Bailiffs are fighting for work in a very competitive market, they basically accept the terms dictated by councils otherwise another company will win the contract. Big Al will know better than I do but I'm pretty sure that there are some agreements in place which state that fees will not be paid, if the original debt is paid in full to the council.

[stuuartdavis84]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

I know that it is possible for the baliifis to withdraw but my advice is to get the "enforcement warrant " element of the debt out the way by paying the original debt.
and I say this because of you have assets outside of the property like a car etc they will continue to seize these but will not be able to if the enforcement element is eliminated... Just saying

[Guest]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

Stuart-You really do need to understand the implications of the Schedule 12 Procedure. It has changed things entirely and tightened up on almost all previous loopholes. Let us use your figures as an example:

A debtor owes £100 and has had a visit from a bailiff meaning fees of £310. This brings the debt to a new total of £410.

If the debtor then goes to the council and pays £100, the council will in all probability keep this money. Many councils will however state that £75 of the payment has gone straight to pay the compliance fee. Of the remaining £25, 20% of that has gone towards the enforcement fee. In total, this means that around £81 of the payment has gone towards bailiff fees and only £19 has gone towards the debt. £81 is still outstanding, so the bailiffs can still continue to enforce and a car would still be at danger.

It is a massive gamble to pay the creditor directly in an attempt to avoid fees. It is still a gamble to try to sit it out but it has far more chance of success and at least the debtor is fully prepared for what is to come.

How would you feel if you told someone to pay the council directly and all would be fine-Only for that person to have his car towed away 2 weeks later?

[Big Al]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

I know that it is possible for the baliifis to withdraw but my advice is to get the "enforcement warrant " element of the debt out the way by paying the original debt.
and I say this because of you have assets outside of the property like a car etc they will continue to seize these but will not be able to if the enforcement element is eliminated... Just saying

Thing is, the bailiff won't see it like that and they'll still clamp or seize the car and answer questions later. They will even fool the police into helping them. And if you get a council that passes fees on, they will only credit your council tax with what's left after that deduction.

Obviously they shouldn't be passing on any fees as case law has ruled on that situation, but many councils take their training from bailiff companies; hell, some are even owned by them. Unless you know your council doesn't pass on fees, it's better to wait until the bailiff gets bored and returns the warrant. In the meantime, keep any outside valuables out of reach.

[stuuartdavis84]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

I was referring to this particular case in which the person had been paying the debt to the balifif previously which means the balifif would have already taken the £75 compliance fees and paid any amount over that to the council so when I say find out the amount due that would be the actual figure left to pay to council.
So what I'm say is if they paid the £100 then the compliance fee wouldn't have come out of that because it's already been paid...

if however the payment plan wasn't in place previous then the council would add the £75 to the £100 owed but NOT any other of balifif's fees..

Im sorry but I have been in the same situation and helped many others I respect your knowledge about precedues but I have had 1st hand experience which I would say counts for more

[stuuartdavis84]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

I thing again your comment is irrelevant as the compliance fee would be paid to council and a enforcement warrant for goods would not be granted against the balififs added fees ( not the compliance fee) just so where clear

[Big Al]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

Ok, trying to make sense of that. If the debtor had only been charged the compliance stage fees before following a payment arrangement then yes, the bailiff will have skimmed his £75 fee from those payments. If the debtor then paid the balance direct to the council then that would be no different to paying the balance through the bailiff - no more fees would be added as the full amount has been paid.

However, if the payment plan wasn't adhered to, the bailiff would make a visit and add £235. If the the debtor then tried to pay the balance direct to the council (not including this new £235), there is a risk that the council will split that payment between themselves and the bailiff.

Of course, they might not, and of the ones I've asked, 75% are saying they don't. But what if the debtor's council is one of the other 25%?

Paying the council direct will work in most cases, but sometimes it's going to go tits-up. Like I said, unless you know for sure that your council will not pass anything from a direct payment to the bailiff, I advise to sit it out and wait for the warrant to be returned.

[stuuartdavis84]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

That's why I mentioned to ask the question 1st...

i think sitting is an option but not the best in my opinion (which doesn't mean I'm right you wrong ) im just saying that I think some people would prefer to clear the original debt and tell the balifif to whistle for a £235 so called visit than look over there shoulder wondering if they can open there kitchen window or open there front with a balifif waiting issuing a enforcement warrant

[Big Al]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

That's why I mentioned to ask the question 1st...

i think sitting is an option but not the best in my opinion (which doesn't mean I'm right you wrong ) im just saying that I think some people would prefer to clear the original debt and tell the balifif to whistle for a £235 so called visit than look over there shoulder wondering if they can open there kitchen window or open there front with a balifif waiting issuing a enforcement warrant

Oh, I can absolutely understand that, and it's been said the 'sit it out' option is not for everyone. It's needs some steel, or confidence, and can be stressful for some.

Bailiffs can't enter through windows anymore (I know I'm right about that :tung:!), but they can enter through an unlocked door. I advise to stick one of those Rottweiller 'I Live Here' posters to make them think twice about trying to open a door.

[Guest]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

I was referring to this particular case in which the person had been paying the debt to the balifif previously which means the balifif would have already taken the £75 compliance fees and paid any amount over that to the council so when I say find out the amount due that would be the actual figure left to pay to council.
So what I'm say is if they paid the £100 then the compliance fee wouldn't have come out of that because it's already been paid...

if however the payment plan wasn't in place previous then the council would add the £75 to the £100 owed but NOT any other of balifif's fees..

Im sorry but I have been in the same situation and helped many others I respect your knowledge about precedues but I have had 1st hand experience which I would say counts for more

Counts for more? ROFL

On what basis do you think that I have no 1st hand experience? Is it the same basis that thinks paying the council direct is a good idea?

You have no idea what you are talking about pal-Least of all when referring to me. You're even contradicting yourself now, so I will leave you to it. I'm sure the OP will have enough about him to work out you are talking jibberish.

Feel free to post the names of these councils who have accepted payment directly and we can then cross check your claims.

[Guest]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

That's why I mentioned to ask the question 1st...

i think sitting is an option but not the best in my opinion (which doesn't mean I'm right you wrong ) im just saying that I think some people would prefer to clear the original debt and tell the balifif to whistle for a £235 so called visit than look over there shoulder wondering if they can open there kitchen window or open there front with a balifif waiting issuing a enforcement warrant

A bailiff can not enter through a kitchen window. As I said before, you need to read & understand the new regulations before posting rubbish on the internet.

Also, telling a bailiff to whistle for his £235 will not stop him. Of course it would be better to just pay off the debt (if of course the debtor can afford to, which most can't) but it would only be better if this stopped enforcement. What you don't seem able to understand is that paying the council does not guarantee that enforcement will be stopped.

If you think otherwise, please feel free to post the relevant legislation that backs up your claim.

[stuuartdavis84]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

L.BIZZY
i 100% guarantee that if the council use your payment against the fine only (and the compliance fee which is added on at the start) the £235 can not be enforced as a warrant.... FACT !! yes they can pursue the debt as a civil matter but they wont because they no longer have the power to seize goods etc and considering the person they was trying to recover from couldn't make the payments of warrant debt it be stupid of them to chase a debt with no power behind the recovery.. and yes if they call and send you letters for the £235 you can just refuse to pay and there is nothing they can do but keep trying to recover the fees in a 'non warrant' which is points and end up costing them more in admin than the debt itself therefore they would walk away...




.

[Guest]

Re: Help with Newlyn please

Lbizzy us correct in this.

The warrant will continue in force until the total amount outshining on the account is paid, this is defined in section 50(3)Schedule 12 of the regulations and includes fees.

Or the warrant is returned of course.