Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

[Golden boxer]

Following our ongoing saga with Jacobs we have now received confirmation of the costs they have added. They have confirmed they attended the property twice and put hand delivered notices through the door (whilst we were on holiday and no-one was at the property when they attended).

Attendance/Van £200
Levy £83

The levy was on my car (not the debtors). We never received notice of the levy through the door. We only found out when I sent a statutory declaration to Jacobs to say that all the property and cars belonged to me (a third party). They then wrote a letter saying that they had levied on my car and for us to confirm it belonged to a third party which we did. On the levy they actually had the registration number wrong (they put 53 instead of 03)

Please could someone advise whether these fees are legal and right and whether they can charge a fee for a levy on a car whilst we were on holiday - a third party car and they actually got the registration number wrong anyway and whether they can charge for visits and a van when we were on holiday and not here to deal with it. Jacobs have been instructed in relation to a Council Tax bill on a business (my brothers who is currently staying with me and the liability order has been put on my address).

I have found this information on another website:
"Bailiffs cannot charge multiple levy fees on the same goods or levying on someone else's car. You can ask for these to be refunded by asking the council to follow the Local Government Ombudsman's recommendations on pages 6 and 7 of 11 of the Local Government Ombudsman report on 29 November 2012"

"Bailiffs cannot charge you a "letter" fee or a visit fee if you are not at home when he called. See Page 5 of 11 of the Local Government Ombudsman report on 29 November 2012."

On the letter from Jacobs detailing the costs they have said they want my brother to pay £250 per month or further action will be taken. He can't afford this and has been paying the Council £20 per week on their online payment page. Any advice re the above gratefully received.

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Following our ongoing saga with Jacobs we have now received confirmation of the costs they have added. They have confirmed they attended the property twice and put hand delivered notices through the door (whilst we were on holiday and no-one was at the property when they attended).

Attendance/Van £200
Levy £83

The levy was on my car (not the debtors). We never received notice of the levy through the door. We only found out when I sent a statutory declaration to Jacobs to say that all the property and cars belonged to me (a third party). They then wrote a letter saying that they had levied on my car and for us to confirm it belonged to a third party which we did. On the levy they actually had the registration number wrong (they put 53 instead of 03)

Please could someone advise whether these fees are legal and right and whether they can charge a fee for a levy on a car whilst we were on holiday - a third party car and they actually got the registration number wrong anyway and whether they can charge for visits and a van when we were on holiday and not here to deal with it. Jacobs have been instructed in relation to a Council Tax bill on a business (my brothers who is currently staying with me and the liability order has been put on my address).

I have found this information on another website:
"Bailiffs cannot charge multiple levy fees on the same goods or levying on someone else's car. You can ask for these to be refunded by asking the council to follow the Local Government Ombudsman's recommendations on pages 6 and 7 of 11 of the Local Government Ombudsman report on 29 November 2012"

"Bailiffs cannot charge you a "letter" fee or a visit fee if you are not at home when he called. See Page 5 of 11 of the Local Government Ombudsman report on 29 November 2012."

On the letter from Jacobs detailing the costs they have said they want my brother to pay £250 per month or further action will be taken. He can't afford this and has been paying the Council £20 per week on their online payment page. Any advice re the above gratefully received.

Hi again GB,

Jacobs cannot lawfully levy on third-party goods and they know this or ought to know it. There can be no excuse. Does the Liability Order Jacobs are relying on relate to your property and is your name and/or that of your OH on the Liability Order? If not, Jacobs and the local authority are potentially skating on thin ice.

Can you confirm if the Liability Order relates to Council Tax (on a residential property) or National Non-Domestic Rates (on a business premises)?

[Golden boxer]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Hi again GB,

Jacobs cannot lawfully levy on third-party goods and they know this or ought to know it. There can be no excuse. Does the Liability Order Jacobs are relying on relate to your property and is your name and/or that of your OH on the Liability Order? If not, Jacobs and the local authority are potentially skating on thin ice.

Can you confirm if the Liability Order relates to Council Tax (on a residential property) or National Non-Domestic Rates (on a business premises)?

Hi again BB. The liability order relates to non domestic rates due on my brother's old business premises which shut down in February 2012. My brother who is the debtor is currently living at my address. The letters from Jacobs are addressed to him at my address. We have never seen the liability order (despite repeatedly asking the Council for a copy) so can only assume the LO is under his name and my address.

[Golden boxer]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Hi again GB,

Jacobs cannot lawfully levy on third-party goods and they know this or ought to know it.

Does this mean that the levy fee of £83 shouldn't be charged by Jacobs? What about the £200 for visits/van? I was going to send the stickies letter to the Council stating unlawful fees etc but wanted to check that they are first and on what grounds.

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Hi again BB. The liability order relates to non domestic rates due on my brother's old business premises which shut down in February 2012. My brother who is the debtor is currently living at my address. The letters from Jacobs are addressed to him at my address. We have never seen the liability order (despite repeatedly asking the Council for a copy) so can only assume the LO is under his name and my address.

I am going to ask Sir Vere to look in on this thread and advise. The last bailiff who tried to enforce alleged NNDR arrears which turned out to be an NNDR overpayment owing to the person whose name was on the Liability Order at a residential property was relieved of their bailiff certificate by the District Judge at the court that issued their certificate - and it was done without a Form 4 being submitted and without a hearing. Bear with me and I'll ask Sir Vere to look in.

[Golden boxer]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

I am going to ask Sir Vere to look in on this thread and advise. The last bailiff who tried to enforce alleged NNDR arrears which turned out to be an NNDR overpayment owing to the person whose name was on the Liability Order at a residential property was relieved of their bailiff certificate by the District Judge at the court that issued their certificate - and it was done without a Form 4 being submitted and without a hearing. Bear with me and I'll ask Sir Vere to look in.

Thank you BB. I know it isn't an overpayment. Even though the business shut down in Feb 2012 he was still the leaseholder until Nov 2012 and the debt owed is the NNDR from April 2012 to Nov 2012.

Also we never received a Notice of Seizure (Form 7) for their levy on my car - I thought this was illegal?

[bizzybob]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

If he is a lodger and all the goods of value are yours including the car, then Jacobs as BB says can swivel. You may need to go down the Formal Complaint route with the council regarding their agents enforcing against your property for the debts of a lodger, or even if your brother is homeless a sofa surfer with no ownership of any goods of value. You may need to threaten to take an injunction out on Jacobs as they are stupid enough even at this stage to take your car and auction it

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

If he is a lodger and all the goods of value are yours including the car, then Jacobs as BB says can swivel. You may need to go down the Formal Complaint route with the council regarding their agents enforcing against your property for the debts of a lodger, or even if your brother is homeless a sofa surfer with no ownership of any goods of value. You may need to threaten to take an injunction out on Jacobs as they are stupid enough even at this stage to take your car and auction it

The OP would be wise to include the local authority, Jacobs and the bailiff on the PF39CH if this becomes necessary. I would certainly warn the bailiff that he is putting his certificate at risk, under Civil Procedures Rules, if he continues to behave like an idiot.

[Golden boxer]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Thanks BB and BB! I haven't had advice here about whether the fees are valid or not, but have gone ahead and written an amended version of letter 4 (stickies) to the council, stating that the levy is on a third party vehicle of which Jacobs has already been advised. Hope this is right.

[bizzybob]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Any levy on property of any third party who is not connected to the debt is automatically unlawful, and Jacobs are noted for being extreme muppets in this regard, taking and selling cars not belonging to a debtor, as it was parked outside or adjacent to the debtors premises.

As the debt is not yours and your brother is legally a lodger or relative staying temporarily, then they cannot enforce against your property, they can only seize his

If you have appraised the council and jacobs of this and provided proof or a Stat dec they are sinking in the quicksand as we type.

If they did take your car, then I feel it would be theft.

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Thanks BB and BB! I haven't had advice here about whether the fees are valid or not, but have gone ahead and written an amended version of letter 4 (stickies) to the council, stating that the levy is on a third party vehicle of which Jacobs has already been advised. Hope this is right.

In answer to your specific question about fees, any levy fee against your car is unlawful as it is third-party goods and you are not the debtor. I have doubts as to the legality of the Attendance/Van Fee of £200. As previously stated, I have asked Sir Vere to look in an advise, due to his specialist knowledge and experience, which I value.

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Please see my opinions inside your thread.

Following our ongoing saga with Jacobs we have now received confirmation of the costs they have added. They have confirmed they attended the property twice and put hand delivered notices through the door (whilst we were on holiday and no-one was at the property when they attended).

Attendance/Van £200
Levy £83

The levy was on my car (not the debtors). We never received notice of the levy through the door. We only found out when I sent a statutory declaration to Jacobs to say that all the property and cars belonged to me (a third party). They then wrote a letter saying that they had levied on my car and for us to confirm it belonged to a third party which we did. On the levy they actually had the registration number wrong (they put 53 instead of 03) This levy is invalid for 2 reasons, 1)Wrong description 2)Item not subject to levy.

Please could someone advise whether these fees are legal and right and whether they can charge a fee for a levy on a car whilst we were on holiday - a third party car and they actually got the registration number wrong anyway and whether they can charge for visits and a van when we were on holiday and not here to deal with it. Jacobs have been instructed in relation to a Council Tax bill on a business (my brothers who is currently staying with me and the liability order has been put on my address).The liability order is directed to your brother who is staying as a guest, they can not levy on any of your possessions .... if he was staying at the Waldorf they could not levy on the Hotel's assetts.

I have found this information on another website:
"Bailiffs cannot charge multiple levy fees on the same goods or levying on someone else's car. You can ask for these to be refunded by asking the council to follow the Local Government Ombudsman's recommendations on pages 6 and 7 of 11 of the Local Government Ombudsman report on 29 November 2012"
This is correct.

"Bailiffs cannot charge you a "letter" fee or a visit fee if you are not at home when he called. See Page 5 of 11 of the Local Government Ombudsman report on 29 November 2012." This is not correct.

On the letter from Jacobs detailing the costs they have said they want my brother to pay £250 per month or further action will be taken. He can't afford this and has been paying the Council £20 per week on their online payment page. Any advice re the above gratefully received. There is a big difference between what they want and what they can get, but your brother might need to increase his payments say from £20pw to £35pw that should sut them up

Hope this helped

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Hi again BB. The liability order relates to non domestic rates due on my brother's old business premises which shut down in February 2012. My brother who is the debtor is currently living at my address. The letters from Jacobs are addressed to him at my address. We have never seen the liability order (despite repeatedly asking the Council for a copy) so can only assume the LO is under his name and my address.

Question one .... was the business your brother ran a partnership, a sole trader or a Limited Company?

Because if it was a partnership all partners are equally liable, if it was a sole trader then he needs to sort it, if it was a limited company which has ceased trading then the whole thing is invalid.

Question two ... If your brother was a sole trader has he been declared bankrupt? If the answer to this is Yes the Liability Order can not be enforced.

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Question one .... was the business your brother ran a partnership, a sole trader or a Limited Company?

Because if it was a partnership all partners are equally liable, if it was a sole trader then he needs to sort it, if it was a limited company which has ceased trading then the whole thing is invalid.

Question two ... If your brother was a sole trader has he been declared bankrupt? If the answer to this is Yes the Liability Order can not be enforced.

Excellent advice and many thanks for looking in and advising the OP, Sir Vere. :first:

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice on Bailiff Fees from Jacobs please

Please see my opinions inside your thread.



Hope this helped

Excellent advice and many thanks for looking in and advising the OP, Sir Vere. :first: