Bailiff Threads

[Guest]

Re: Bailiff Threads

Can someone write a thousand word essay on (Why the rules and laws under which bailiffs operate does NOT need changing) Ah no takers then? I only got to one word.

There are supposed to be changes in the works, next year apparently, think it will make a a lot of difference ? Personally I have my doubts

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff Threads

Wouldn't that breach of the Binding Order mean they were no longer fit and proper so would or should lose their certificate? BTW Andy58 I can see exactly where Bluebottle is coming from, he is from a breed of copper who would always try to do the right thing, and b efair and impartial, using discretion, not looking for brownie points as in number of arrests made or tickets issued. Every arrest generates massive paperwork, not fun for a copper nearing the end of a watch.

Breaching a Binding-Over Order could have a number of consequences. They could forfeit a financial surety the magistrates had ordered them to lodge with the court, usually, around £2,000, or receive a custodial sentence of usually 2-3 months. It was nearly always a forfeiture of surety which did hurt them. Whether this would result in a revocation of their Bailiff's Certificate is another matter. The only time I was instrumental in having two bailiffs certificates revoked was whilst in the police force. Two bailiffs had forced their way into an RN Married Quarter without lawful authority and were proceeding to remove furniture with Nato Serial Numbers and "Property of H.M. Government" stamped on them. They were given the opportunity to put the furniture back in the Married Quarter, but refused, so they were arrested under the Public Stores Act for Unlawful Possession of Public Stores and, also, for Burglary. They were convicted at the magistrates, after a Not Guilty plea. After the hearing and because they had both been certificated by the local county court, they were taken round to the county court by myself and the sergeant who had arrested them. After completing paperwork, the Chief Clerk of the Court asked if the convictions were subject to appeal - they were not because the two bailiffs' solicitors had told them appealing would be futile and they had received suspended sentences - then managed to slot us in before the Senior Judge - District Judges had not come into being at that time. The Senior Judge looked at the paperwork and asked if the convictions were subject to appeal, before revoking their certificates there and then.

What you say in response to Andy is quite true. I am what they call "Old School" where we used our discretion, commonsense and knowledge to prevent crime, where we could, and deal with it, when it happened. These days, policing is target-driven and a lot of arrests fail to comply with Code G of PACE, in that there is insufficient evidence to warrant arrest or no grounds at all. The same with Fixed Penalty Notices (FPNs). It's what comes of letting those who haven't a clue about policing dictate policy.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff Threads

There are supposed to be changes in the works, next year apparently, think it will make a a lot of difference ? Personally I have my doubts

From what I can gather, Andy, it is nothing more than putting the National Standards on the Statute Book. They would have done better by placing a duty on bailiffs to have with them a copy of the actual court warrant on them when attending, not the Mickey Mouse efforts some bailiff companies try to use to hoodwink debtors and police officers into thinking they are acting lawfully and repealing the provision that they must tell the debtor where a warrant can be inspected. Giving police officers the power to seize bailiff certificates, if only to prevent a bailiff from continuing to act unlawfully or illegally,together with a provision that prevents any levies that bailiff has from being enforced until the legality of those levies have been established either way would probably hamper the collection of unpaid court fines, CT and NNDR arrears, but if it means that debtors are properly protected from unscrupulous, corrupt, dishonest and violent bailiffs and creditors, including local authorities which we fund through the tax system, are protected from the risk of litigation - Remember, it is OUR money that is used to settle claims arising from the misconduct of bailiffs acting for local authorities - then it just might bring about the necessary change to bring the civil enforcement industry to heel. Closing down the civil enforcement industry altogether should be the ultimate goal.

[labman]

Re: Bailiff Threads

I agree with getting the case sorted. I share everyone's dislike of bailiffs. In fact, after my personal experiences I'd challenge most of you to dislike them as much as I do

However, on a public site I just feel it inappropriate, and I get very bored of reading insults post after post. Just me and my own opinion - if I read fewer bailiff posts, that way I'll avoid all the rubbish and what I see as childish name calling. Nothing ventured, nothing gained eh! :beagle:

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bailiff Threads

Calling someone names behind the back is worse IMHO, but more importantly it result in post after post, thread after thread of boring repetitive name calling, with no real constructive information being sought or derived.

Oh, phooey!

The information conveyed by calling the bailiffs "naughty words" is that one dislikes their attitude and antics. It's a matter of shewing solidarity with the bailiffs' victims rather than with the bailiffs themselves.

It will do us - or this site - little good to pretend that bad bailiffs had merely made a mistake or two, or that they are honest and hard-working men and women who are "only doing a job" and that they must command our respect and obedience.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bailiff Threads

On a more serious note, Cloggy, calling a bailiff a sufferer of the Oedipus Complex to their face would, in all probability, amount to Behaviour Likely to Cause A Breach of the Peace.

Did you really mean that they lust after their mothers or were you referring to the "sin" of Onan?

(No children were corrupted in the production of this film - link.)

[wales01man]

Re: Bailiff Threads

Mengele was only doing his job?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bailiff Threads

How about a penalty system, similar to a swear box, award points to each transgressor, at the end of the week the one with the highest count has to pay an appropriate forfeit.

How about you just go elsewhere to write about bailiffs the way you prefer?

I, for one, am getting weary of your incessant whinging.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bailiff Threads

Mengele was only doing his job?

Yes, indeed.

Has someone been rude about the late Doktor?

[charitynjw]

Re: Bailiff Threads

How about you just go elsewhere to write about bailiffs the way you prefer?

I, for one, am getting weary of your incessant whinging.

Hmmmmm!

You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
Cohen, Herb

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bailiff Threads

I would tend to agree that comments on the various crimes they may or may not have committed are rarely helpful, not least of which because there is next to bugger all chance of a prosecution. In those cases where a bailiff was investigated by the plods or suffered the revocation of their Certificate, that happened without any prompting from this site.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff Threads

I would tend to agree that comments on the various crimes they may or may not have committed are rarely helpful, not least of which because there is next to bugger all chance of a prosecution. In those cases where a bailiff was investigated by the plods or suffered the revocation of their Certificate, that happened without any prompting from this site.

Not while you've got this current government in office you won't. It can be useful to illustrate just how serious a bailiff's conduct is if you're trying to gain the moral high ground and bend the ear of those in power for effective regulation of an industry that has gotten and been allowed to get out of control. If you adopt the "nothing will change" attitude, exactly that will happen - nothing will change.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bailiff Threads

Not while you've got this current government in office you won't.

Not quite,as none but, perhaps, a tiny fraction of the most egregious cases would result in a prosecution, regardless of which bunch of snollygosters might be in office. Even when they're convicted, their sentences are absurdly lenient.

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-...e-7000-5010628

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/50...with_dementia/

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.u...tors-1-2112074

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/ipswich_b...tion_1_1356897

It can be useful to illustrate just how serious a bailiff's conduct is if you're trying to gain the moral high ground and bend the ear of those in power for effective regulation of an industry that has gotten and been allowed to get out of control.

Yes, but whose ears are being bent here?

If you adopt the "nothing will change" attitude, exactly that will happen - nothing will change.

I am merely being pragmatic.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff Threads

Not quite,as none but, perhaps, a tiny fraction of the most egregious cases would result in a prosecution, regardless of which bunch of snollygosters might be in office. Even when they're convicted, their sentences are absurdly lenient.

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-...e-7000-5010628

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/50...with_dementia/

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.u...tors-1-2112074

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/ipswich_b...tion_1_1356897


Yes, but whose ears are being bent here?


I am merely being pragmatic.

Whilst you may be pragmatic, Cloggy, where apathy amongst a population exists, the powers that be will regard that as acceptance of the status quo and will do nothing to instigate change until they are forced to change.

[Guest]

Re: Bailiff Threads

[QUOTE=CleverClogs;360689]How about you just go elsewhere to write about bailiffs the way you prefer?

I, for one, am getting weary of your incessant whinging.[/QUOT]

Thanks for the offer, but I think I will write about whatever I like in whatever way I like until someone in some authority tells me otherwise

Cue name calling