Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

[IanDavies]

Hello there, I found this web site through a Google search and the advice seems fantastic, I have read through a lot of posts and have got to grips with some of the basic about the situation I'm in but I cannot figure out how much time I have and whether the bailiffs will be breaking into my home this Friday!

I got myself two parking fines from a traffic warden back in July and August 2011, monies always tight and they were one of the bills that just seemed easier to push to the back of the list and forget about. I did forget about them and it seemed the council had as well until I received two letters on the same day on 12/04/13 ( I have posted pictures of all 4 letters I have received so far) they stated I owed £125.44 and £95.44, I noticed they were not from the council but from a bailiffs, I decided to pay them outright from my pay cheque which I receive this Friday 10/05/13, I knew from reading the letter that they were not giving me that much time to pay but it would have been impossible for me to get that kind of money before then and I really didn't want to speak to Bailiffs so I decided to not call them at all then when I get my pay just call and pay the balance, again in my ignorance I thought well they have waited 2 years to get this money from me so surely they could wait another 2 weeks! how wrong could I have been. I received the following two letters (the removal notice ones) while I was out at work, they arrived at the same time and were asking for a total of £261.04 and £317.10, I asked my downstairs neighbor and he said he didn't even hear anyone knock they just appeared at the bottom of the door, I panicked at the total fee's they were asking for and called the bailiff on the mobile number provided about 40 minutes after the letter had been posted. The call was just as bad as I imagined it would be talking to a bailiff, the guy was aggressive and said to me there is no way they will wait till Friday or come to any payment plan and that one of there bailiffs will be coming to my home the next day with a locksmith to break in and take my stuff. I told him there is simply no way I could get almost £600 ready to pay in less then 24 hours, I explained I get paid on Friday and could pay £300 and that is me literally breaking the bank a deferring other utility bills etc, he said there was no way they will accept that, the call then just kind of ended. 5 minutes later he called me back and said he had spoken to his supervisor and he had agreed to hold of on the locksmith and give me till Friday to pay the full balance, there was no negotiating and the call ended like that.

My concerns are that the fee's seem massive in proportion to how much the original fines were, also from my initial browsing of the forums it seems that they cannot charge me double fees when they only attended my property once to post the two letters.

Can anyone tell me what I can do? and how much time I have before they break in? Am I able to call the council and pay them the fines directly and deal with the bailiffs separately? I am worried as I am rapidly approaching Friday and have no idea what the best move to make is.

I hope the pictures I have attached work as it might explain things better, these 4 letters are the only correspondence I have had from Excel and they have only been to my property one to drop off the second set of letters.

Thank you in advance for any help with this!

Ian.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

The one fact always to remember is:

Bailiffs tell lies.

Mae'r un ffaith bob amser i gofio yw:

beilļaid yn pidyn-pennau sy'n dweud celwydd.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

My concerns are that the fees seem massive in proportion to how much the original fines were,

Correct - they are!

I've checked the relevant regulations (link 1, link 2) and not only is there no provision whatever for a ba:censored:rd bailiff charging a "visit fee", the fees they are attempting to charge would be grossly excessive even if the bugger had levied distress. For a debt of less than £100, the fee would be £28; for a debt over £100, the fee would be 28% (rounded up to the nearest whole pound) on the first £200 which is approximately £36.

That's rather different from the £183.60 and £191.66 the Excel goon thinks he can charge!

[labman]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

Have a read of this:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...rking-Offences

The bit about the Statutory Declaration Out of Time is the bit for you. It would be good to get a full breakdown of their charges too - there is a link to Letter 1 in the above link. Once you get a reply with the breakdown of charges, post them up so we can identify which are and which are not lawful.

[IanDavies]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

Fantastic! Thank you for the replies. So I will send a request for a breakdown of fees recorded delivery tomorrow. I have read the instructions on the TEC website about Statutory Declaration Out of Time, it says that I must have a valid reason for not doing it within 21 days of the PCN, my only reason is at the time I simply did not have the money to pay, and then I just forgot about them.

Should I call the Bailiffs mobile number and tell him I have sent a letter asking for a breakdown of fees and that I am sending a Statutory Declaration Out of Time form too? as I am worried that they will come round on Friday and charge me even more fees and break in.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

I am worried that they will come round on Friday and charge me even more fees and break in.

If they try to ramp up their fees even more, they will only succeed in digging themselves into a bigger hole.

If the bugger(s) do break in or force entry, get them prosecuted as they are not legally permitted to do that.

[labman]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

Fantastic! Thank you for the replies. So I will send a request for a breakdown of fees recorded delivery tomorrow. I have read the instructions on the TEC website about Statutory Declaration Out of Time, it says that I must have a valid reason for not doing it within 21 days of the PCN, my only reason is at the time I simply did not have the money to pay, and then I just forgot about them. That's a valid reason in my book - at least it will buy you some time to get money together, or identify unlawful charges by the bailiff company - there will be some. You might find it interesting to work out what you think you should owe - the fees chargeable are on that link as well.


Should I call the Bailiffs mobile number and tell him I have sent a letter asking for a breakdown of fees and that I am sending a Statutory Declaration Out of Time form too? as I am worried that they will come round on Friday and charge me even more fees and break in. No - don't contact the bailiffs at all unless you absolutely have to. The chances of them turning up are very slight, though obviously I can't guarantee that. They rely on threats worrying you sufficiently to beg, steal or borrow the money.

They cannot break in without going back to the court, and they are highly unlikely to be granted permission to do so for parking fines. You should contact the council reminding them they are vicariously liable for the conduct of their enforcement agents and state they are refusing a reasonable installment plan (they shouldn't do this). Ask if the council will take the debt back (I'm assuming both tickets are from the same council?) and accept your repayment proposals - they will say you have to deal with the bailiffs which you don't, but it's what they'll say. Ask them to put this in writing to you as that was not your understanding. It's worth a go! Plenty more to do once the breakdown of fees come, so get things delayed to buy yourself some time.

[bluebottle]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

Don't forget that Excel hold a contract with HMCTS. This is coming up for retendering this month. I wonder what HMCTS would say if the lie sheets the OP has kindly posted just happened to find their way into the inbox of HMCTS Head of Enforcement Operations? Answers on a postcard, please.....

[IanDavies]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

Great stuff, tomorrow I will call the council after I have posted the letter asking for a breakdown of the fees I have been charged. I cannot believe how aggressive these bailiffs are demanding so much money, I cannot tell you how relieved I am to have found this site and to be getting these replies so quick, I was thinking to myself that this site should be funded by the government, then I thought... the bailiffs are working for the government in one way or another?

[bizzybob]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

Don't forget that Excel hold a contract with HMCTS. This is coming up for retendering this month. I wonder what HMCTS would say if the lie sheets the OP has kindly posted just happened to find their way into the inbox of HMCTS Head of Enforcement Operations? Answers on a postcard, please.....

Perhaps they should then

[wales01man]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

My postcard says SEND EM

[CleverClogs]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

Don't forget that Excel hold a contract with HMCTS. This is coming up for retendering this month. I wonder what HMCTS would say if the lie sheets the OP has kindly posted just happened to find their way into the inbox of HMCTS Head of Enforcement Operations? Answers on a postcard, please.....

I believe the bit where they threaten to remove goods in the absence of the debtor should make one question if the company is really fit to operate that contract.

However, as I am more than slightly cynical, I do doubt that any heed will be paid to their fibs.

[bizzybob]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

Excel are unfit to exist, they are a horror of a company that misrepresents it's bailiffs powers and as a matter of procedure uses the same threatOgram for civil debt enforcement like a council ticket, as for HMCS magistrates fines. A very very NAUGHTY practice. The evidence for this transgression is there plain to see in post #1

[IanDavies]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

Hi guys, here is an update of what has happened. A late witness statement was completed and sent via e-mail the the TEC on the 10th of this month along with a recorded delivery letter to the bailiffs office address asking for a breakdown of there fees, there has been no reply yet on the late witness statement and no reply from the bailiffs with a breakdown of there fees until today.
A lady came to the door with a letter, I simply said to her 'I'm sorry I cant let you in' to which she replied 'you can be as big and macho as you like but we will keep visiting and the fees will keep coming, and we WILL be able to break in'. The letter was shoved in my hand and she left. I have attached the letter for you to look at, unlike last time they only brought one letter so I expect another visit shortly with the second, the first time they just sent both at the same time and billed me for the one visit twice.

They have included there fees breakdown but if you look at them they don't correspond with what I have been charged, so how can I have any faith in them and consider paying?

eg, the first visit fee is £191.66 which is what they charged for the first visit on one PCN then the second PCN that they delivered at the same time they charged £183.60, so where did that number come from? also it says the second visit is £72.60 but on this second visit today they didn't fill out the visit fee but I worked it out too £61.68. And while I was checking I noticed the original visit was added up wrong they made out £95.44 PCN + fee of £183.60 = £261.04 but it's not it's £279.04 so it makes me wonder where exactly they are getting these numbers from? they are essentially saying that all the fees I have incurred so far are huge visit fee and that's it.

it has only been 10 full working days since the late witness statement was send so I expect it will take longer for an answer, in the meanwhile these fees are going to keep getting higher and higher, who can I actually speak to and say 'what is with these fees? on the government website the fees listed on there are a hell of a lot less then what I am being charged so how can they get away with sending out a printed letter with huge fees on? they have put it in writing so either it's legal for them to do that or they have just made a whip for there own back??????

Also I have just remembered that the the breakdown letter I sent was the template from the 'Useful letter thread' so I haven't actually received that at all as it asked for a lot more detailed info, I called the Bailiffs office and they said they had received no such letter, I said it was recorded and signed for but they just said there are no notes to say it has been received and made some vague reference to letters like that being send to Colwyn bay to be processed then the call ended. I have included an attachment which shows the letter was signed for by someone called 'Stoke' the day after I sent it. Where do I take it from here with regards to getting the breakdown?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Urgent Help with Excel Civil enforcement ltd.

As usual, the fees are invented. There is no fixed fee for "visits" or "attendances", as you can see here ---> link

The fees are actually worked out on a percentage basis, with unpaid fees from a first visit being added to the debt. Nor is there any provision for a fourth visit fee,

There is a slight slip-up on the link I provided, in that it states:

Bailiffs can charge fees for a maximum of three visits.

The law, however, states:

The aggregate costs and charges payable under paragraphs 2 [levying distress] and 3 [unsuccessfully attending to levy distress] are not to exceed the costs and charges allowed for three attendances to levy distress. [My annotations in square brackets.] link

This is correct, though:

It is illegal to charge multiple fees for recovering more than one ticket in one visit.

Mae eu pennau gwirion yng Nghymru yn cael eu dal i fyny eu gwaelodion Cymraeg wirion. :rofl: