Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

[ashneale]

Hi Everyone.

Before I ask my questions I will explain my situation:
Back in July I was travelling to my girlfriends on the bus. I had used her 16+ free oyster card to get home the day before as I had no money so when going back to hers the day after I used it again and a ticket officer got on the bus and then I received a £60 fine. I had/still have no job and so I wasn't able to pay this and was too scared to tell my parents. So I thought if I left it that it would just go away and be forgotten about. Months later a letter from the court asking about my income. At the time of reading it I was just skim reading so not reading it word for word and didn't realise that it said I had a date to attend court on it. Weeks later I started receiving letters from Philips Bailiffs saying I had a £450 fine and to pay immediately or bailiffs would attend my house and remove items. I then decided I had no choice but to tell my parents, I told my mum who lives far away from me as she is alot more understanding and she said if I had told her that it was £60 she would've let me the money to pay it back then but as it's £450 she doesn't have that sort of money and I wouldnt ever expect her or anyone to pay it for me. I eventually got the courage to tell my dad and he said it's my problem and to sort it myself and quickly so no one comes to his house (where I live). I don't own anything valuable really and I never have but my dad has alot of expensive music equipment here and also his laptop he uses for work. I phoned up Philips and they said the least they can do is that I pay £100 a fortnight and if I don't pay it on time someone will attend my (dads) property and remove items. since setting up the arrangement I have managed to pay £150 of the fine from selling my mobile and using it all to pay what I could. but because I havent stuck to the arrangement they said unless I give them a date that I can pay the rest in full then they will proceed to send someone to my house. I'm only 19 years and I know I should be working but I struggle with confidence and phoning people up is a scary thing for me (stupid i know) so I have emailed Philips many times telling them I will pay what I can when I can and that I'm sorry that I can't pay lots and explained my situation to them but they just won't give in. Overall I'm scared that if someone comes to my house that they will takes my dads things which will mean he will kick me out and I'll have nowhere to go.

My Questions:

in one topic it says "DO ask to see the bailiffs certificate" but if I open the door to him does that mean he can push his way past me and take things? how can I speak to him without opening windows and doors? I live next to a pub and my dad is always in and out and sometimes leaves the front door open if he is expecting a friend of his to knock and he is not very understanding at all he will just blame me if anything does happen even though I've told him loads of times. Most importantly I just need the best advice on what to do. I can't sleep at night because of it. I know I'm not the only one going through this but any advice means so much to me that I can't put it in words. Thankyou to anyone that has taken there time to read my thread.

Abit about me: I'm 19 and live in Bromley, Kent.

Thanks

Ash.

[bluebottle]

Re: Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

Hi Ash and welcome. Philips are subject to a contract with HMCTS for enforcement of court fines and their fees are restricted to £300 maximum. You need to speak to the court and ask them to confirm how much the fine actually is. What you need to know about bailiff companies is, like their employees, they lie through their teeth.

[labman]

Re: Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

Also have a read of this:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...s-Courts-Fines

In particular, did you receive the Further Steps Notice?

[ploddertom]

Re: Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

Because you did not respond to the Court they have treated you as if you have maximum income and fined you at this rate which is why the fine amount is so high. You may be able to appeal this but your chances may be slim, but you have nothing to lose by trying.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

You should apply for a Variation Order so that you can pay the fine and any legitimate charges at an affordable rate in proportion to your income.

Write to the Court Manager and explain the situation, as you have here. I suggest you post a draft letter here, leaving out any personal information, before sending it out. Enclose an Income and expenditure sheet, to show how much you would be able to pay weekly / monthly.

You also need a breakdown of the fees being charged to see if these are correct, as the fine has escalated very rapidly. Send an SAR under the Data Protection Act to the bailiff company to get this information, if you don't have it, and post again for further advice when you know what the fees being aasked for are.

[pepsie]

Re: Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

You should apply for a Variation Order so that you can pay the fine and any legitimate charges at an affordable rate in proportion to your income.

Write to the Court Manager and explain the situation, as you have here. I suggest you post a draft letter here, leaving out any personal information, before sending it out. Enclose an Income and expenditure sheet, to show how much you would be able to pay weekly / monthly.

You also need a breakdown of the fees being charged to see if these are correct, as the fine has escalated very rapidly. Send an SAR under the Data Protection Act to the bailiff company to get this information, if you don't have it, and post again for further advice when you know what the fees being aasked for are.

This is a magistrates fine and therefore a variation order does not come into the equation............however if the OP follows the course of action you suggest but makes a request for a 'means tested hearing' they will be on the right track...there is no need to pay for SAR as the bailiff company are required to provide a full breakdown of the fees charged by them, by law and on request.

I would add to this ...if the OP is merely a 'lodger' in the family home then the father has to simply to make a stat dec to the fact all the goods in and around the home belong to him., the bailiff cannot thereafter remove any goods belonging to the father.!!!!

If the OP has no goods on which the bailiff can levy they will return the warrant to the Court and the OP will be summoned to appear and explain his reasons to the court for non payment....this gives an opportunity to negotiate further to an affordable re payment plan.

Pepsie

[ashneale]

Re: Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

This is a magistrates fine and therefore a variation order does not come into the equation............however if the OP follows the course of action you suggest but makes a request for a 'means tested hearing' they will be on the right track...there is no need to pay for SAR as the bailiff company are required to provide a full breakdown of the fees charged by them, by law and on request.

I would add to this ...if the OP is merely a 'lodger' in the family home then the father has to simply to make a stat dec to the fact all the goods in and around the home belong to him., the bailiff cannot thereafter remove any goods belonging to the father.!!!!

If the OP has no goods on which the bailiff can levy they will return the warrant to the Court and the OP will be summoned to appear and explain his reasons to the court for non payment....this gives an opportunity to negotiate further to an affordable re payment plan.

Pepsie

Thankyou for your advice everyone and since me posting this thread I checked my amount that had to be paid and the total fine has risen from £447, (£162 paid) to £674 and £512 to pay with no reason what so ever, they have no attended my property yet and I have asked for a breakdown of the costs and they keep avoiding the question. I think it's absolutely crazy! I'm loosing my mind over how they can just do that.

[labman]

Re: Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

Clearly you need to know why. Send letter 1 from here:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

[bluebottle]

Re: Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

Ash,

Ring the court switchboard number tomorrow and speak to the Fines Office. Once you have established what the fine actually is, ask for the name of the Enforcement Manager and their contact telephone number. If the Fines Office try to fob you off by saying you have to deal with the bailiff, stand your ground and ensure you are given the name of the Enforcement Manager and their contact telephone number. The most bailiff companies under contract to HCMTS can charge is £300 tops. When you speak to the Enforcement Manager, explain what is going on and make it clear you intend to pursue a formal complaint.

[ashneale]

Re: Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

I have only just read everyones replies, helping alot. I am going to do all the phoning first thing tomorrow morning and hopefully get somewhere. I have requested a breakdown and got the following email:

Thank you for your email,

Please see below a breakdown of charges as requested.
I have issued a statement also in the post.
Original fine £362
Philips admin fee £85
Attendence fee £215
Debit card payment charges 4 x £3 total £12
Balance £674
Payments made £63, £50, £37. £12 total paid £162
Balance remaining £512
Kind Regards
Philips"

My original fine was a £60 fine, so where they got £362 from I don't know.
Oh and may I add they have not attended my property yet so I don't know how they have added an attendance fee aswell.

[bluebottle]

Re: Magistrates Courts Fine - Advice Needed.

All the more reason for ringing the HMCTS Enforcement Manager at the court first thing tomorrow morning!