Commercial Property Distress Baliff

[teaboy2]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Doesn't matter if your a sole trader or limited company as the same laws apply regardless.

Are the wongs trading as a limited company, partnership? do their documents contain their company name, registered number etc are they registered as data controllers with ico? if not then they could be operating in breach of company and data protection laws.

[SHarker]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

My landlord is a sole trader. Best thing is he lives next door to the shop, im meeting with a serving detective Sergeant from the derbyshire force this evening for advice also. It's the fraud act I'm unsure of how to get this across to the police

[teaboy2]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

My landlord is a sole trader. Best thing is he lives next door to the shop, im meeting with a serving detective Sergeant from the derbyshire force this evening for advice also. It's the fraud act I'm unsure of how to get this across to the police

Simple show them the bank statements showing the amount of rent you paid each month, as that will show its paid direct debit or standing order, show him you lease agreement that shows amount to be paid rent each month, show him documents proving he failed his attempt to increase your rent via rent review. Also show him the demands from landord asking you to replace equipement etc and the part in the lease that shows its his liability to replace such things. Then show him the fraud act 2006 section 2:

2Fraud by false representation(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—
(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and
(b)intends, by making the representation—
(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
(2)A representation is false if—
(a)it is untrue or misleading, and
(b)the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.
(3)“Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—
(a)the person making the representation, or
(b)any other person.
(4)A representation may be express or implied.
(5)For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).

Basically the landlords claim for arrears is in breach of the above as he knows as a result of the rent review he is not entitled to claim any additional rent than what you have always paid, plus he knows due to the lease agreement that he is not entitled to demand you replace equipement at your finanical cost when it is actually his own contractual liability to replace said equipment etc. Demanding additional rent when hes not entitled to it is a fraudulent financial gain which would incur you a finanical loss at his gain. In fact all his demands will make him a finanical gain at your financial loss, hence why its fraudulent.

[bluebottle]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Here is a copy of the Fraud Act 2006, Stu. Print it off for when the DS calls.

[SHarker]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Just great advice! I'm going to owe you a big beer and free fish and chips for life at this rate..just a thought I had, as the bailiff acted illegally can I also focus on trespass law with him?

[TUTTSI]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Commercial Rent agreements the old style can providing they have notified you in writing and have evidence of this that you received it can use a bailiff directly to come and take a payment from you or ditress and take property to the value of. The government were supposed to be passing a new law that this would change and was supposed to be implimented a few years ago. I will check with our firms solicitors if this has now been done. It will depend of course if yours is this type or not and if the law has indeed since changed.

This happened to the firm where I work we suddenly had Marstons Bailiffs inside the office before anyone could remove him he was well and truely rooted,

I know how upsetting you and your wife must be feeling.

If you have not already done this email Teaboy the lease agreement as he has suggested and he will hopefully post this up here without your personal details.

He lost the rent review, and cost where high, he lost £1600 on a Tribunal Surveyor, plus what ever his own surveyor charged him, but this has created a negative relationship. i have paid the Rent via standing order each month, I didnt withhold any payment.

Under the lease, it clearly states that I am under no obligation to improve the building beyond what it was when i took the lease on....they are trying to get me to put a new bathroom suite in, as his surveyor states its redundant!!!!!

Ive got all the details of the bailiffs at the shop, it was done under distress, from a court certificated bailiff. Landlords don't need a court order, In effect, this right to distrain for rent permits a landlord to recover rent arrears, without initiating court proceedings. When I told them it was wrong, he said that it was up to me to take it to court, as the law had been broken. At the end of the ordeal, the bailiff shook my hand and said that what goes around, comes around.

The bailiff handed me a solicitor letter dated 24 August 2012, stating my defaults. It states sent recorded delivery. I have genuinely not seen this.

I have my bank statements proving payment, to me this is Fraud, harrasment etc.

Stu

[bluebottle]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Just great advice! I'm going to owe you a big beer and free fish and chips for life at this rate..just a thought I had, as the bailiff acted illegally can I also focus on trespass law with him?

I would wait until you've spoken to the DS, Stu. If the police decide the bailiff has committed an offence, trespass will be the least of his worries. Let the police advise on any criminal aspects and seek competent professional legal advice on all other non-criminal matters, including trespass. It needs to be established if the managing agents and bailiff colluded with the Wongs in any way. If they did, then it may well be a criminal matter. See what the police say, then decide on any legal action based on what you are told.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Also see my post just before yours BB as this may have a different spin on it if it is the old style commercial rent agreement as my firm had. we are not privvy to all the facts of Stu's agreement and it is difficult to advise Stu without seeing the lease agreement.

Your suggestion of him seeking legal advice is a very good one, and one that they deals in commercial property leases.

The old style lease agreement are very complex and this needs to be read by a compentent solicitor IMOP.




QUOTE=bluebottle;283404]I would wait until you've spoken to the DS, Stu. If the police decide the bailiff has committed an offence, trespass will be the least of his worries. Let the police advise on any criminal aspects and seek competent professional legal advice on all other non-criminal matters, including trespass. It needs to be established if the managing agents and bailiff colluded with the Wongs in any way. If they did, then it may well be a criminal matter. See what the police say, then decide on any legal action based on what you are told.[/QUOTE]

[SHarker]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Tuttsi you are right in assumption that my lease does allow for rent in arrears to be collected via the distress for rents act 1988, however the main word is arrears... I can prove via bank statements the rent is paid. You cant just make things up, and then issue notice for a bailiff to collect rent. Im confident fraud has been commited. I will of course get all details put together and email you on here.

My rent is paid on the 28th of each month, one month in advance. The lease states I have to pay 1 week in advance.

As Im in dispute with the management agent over the dilapidations report, I think I may have ****ed them off big time. I can't think why on earth any professional person could make make such a stupid mistake and send in bailiffs to collect rent which has already been paid. It was done on a Friday and my gut feeling it's been done to shake me up and harass me into conforming into there demands, I frightening tactic, to cause financial loss.

I will be contacting the law society for recommendations of a specialist solicitor, but I'm the sort of person that wants all the facts first. No point paying £200 per hour for something you can understand yourself, then when I instruct a solicitor I can keep it to the facts, show the evidence and then proceed. This is complicated, and easiest I can present my case, the easier it will be to win my case.

Interesting for me, in contract law, the lease is everything, however the bailiff wasn't interested in it. I'm defo up for criticism , it will refine my mind, and help my understanding going forward, so if you guys think of anything, don't hold back, give it to me straight . I don't want to do the Wong thing!

Cheers

Stu

[SHarker]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Also, remember my lease is with Chow Yin Wong, the bailiff documents clearly state They are acting for Mrs K L Wong. Surely this has complications . It's like me saying I'm the landlord for tescos, then issue a bailiff for non payment for rent, clearly I'm not the legal entity. Maybe I missing something.......

[SHarker]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Forgot to say, but don't want to influence you adversely, the landlord was beaten up last month on the pub car park last year...he is, what shall we say a gambler and a bit dodgy

[TUTTSI]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Tuttsi you are right in assumption that my lease does allow for rent in arrears to be collected via the distress for rents act 1988, however the main word is arrears... I can prove via bank statements the rent is paid. You cant just make things up, and then issue notice for a bailiff to collect rent. Im confident fraud has been commited. I will of course get all details put together and email you on here.

My rent is paid on the 28th of each month, one month in advance. The lease states I have to pay 1 week in advance.

As Im in dispute with the management agent over the dilapidations report, I think I may have ****ed them off big time. I can't think why on earth any professional person could make make such a stupid mistake and send in bailiffs to collect rent which has already been paid. It was done on a Friday and my gut feeling it's been done to shake me up and harass me into conforming into there demands, I frightening tactic, to cause financial loss.

I will be contacting the law society for recommendations of a specialist solicitor, but I'm the sort of person that wants all the facts first. No point paying £200 per hour for something you can understand yourself, then when I instruct a solicitor I can keep it to the facts, show the evidence and then proceed. This is complicated, and easiest I can present my case, the easier it will be to win my case.

Interesting for me, in contract law, the lease is everything, however the bailiff wasn't interested in it. I'm defo up for criticism , it will refine my mind, and help my understanding going forward, so if you guys think of anything, don't hold back, give it to me straight . I don't want to do the Wong thing!

Cheers

Stu

You should be able to find a solicitor who will give give you the first session free.

[bluebottle]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Forgot to say, but don't want to influence you adversely, the landlord was beaten up last month on the pub car park last year...he is, what shall we say a gambler and a bit dodgy

The Chinese are big gamblers and they don't like those who don't play by the rules. That is why your landlord got a slap.

[pepsie]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Also see my post just before yours BB as this may have a different spin on it if it is the old style commercial rent agreement as my firm had. we are not privvy to all the facts of Stu's agreement and it is difficult to advise Stu without seeing the lease agreement.

Your suggestion of him seeking legal advice is a very good one, and one that they deals in commercial property leases.

The old style lease agreement are very complex and this needs to be read by a compentent solicitor IMOP.




QUOTE=bluebottle;283404]I would wait until you've spoken to the DS, Stu. If the police decide the bailiff has committed an offence, trespass will be the least of his worries. Let the police advise on any criminal aspects and seek competent professional legal advice on all other non-criminal matters, including trespass. It needs to be established if the managing agents and bailiff colluded with the Wongs in any way. If they did, then it may well be a criminal matter. See what the police say, then decide on any legal action based on what you are told.

[/QUOTE]
Hi Tutts....I was looking into this for another and found the changes were anticipated to have been made in April 2012...unfortunately they are
still on the back burner....there is a mention 2013 could see the changes but it's a don't hold your breathe mention!!!

Pepsie

[SHarker]

Re: Commercial Property Distress Baliff

Ok, Police are involved, case file being prepared. Still trying to find a solicitor with enough experience to take this on. The ones I've spoken to today do not seem to have the no how.

Further investigation on bailiff is flagging concerns. The bailiff company was called Direct Bailiff Services Ltd, and bailiff in attendance was I C Russell. The only director of Direct Bailiff Services is listed in a credit search as Byron James Crellin.

On the certificated bailiff register, the only person listed under Direct Bailiff Services Ltd is a Michael Andrew March, however he left direct bailiff services ltd in December 2011.

Im feeling uneasy about Not finding any details of active certificates for Direct Bailiff Services Ltd, is that normal. Can they just employ a self employed bailiff?