Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

[tony12uk]

Hi all

I have had a speeding fine that I have been unable to pay due to my dire financial circumstances. My house was repossessed one year ago and I was left with approximately £40,000 of negative equity. Only last week I declared myself bankrupt.

Yesterday I had a leaflet posted through my door whilst I was out. It reads 'I Kaden Smith attended your address today to execute a Distress Warrent issued against you by Manchester Magistrates Court. The amount outstanding is £675.
I have been refused entry/unable to contact you at the address and believe that you are willfully trying to evade payment of your account. You should be aware that there exists a power under Schedule 4A of the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act to enable us to enter your property, BY FORCE, using locksmiths where required, to execute this warrant.
This power may be utilised if the Enforcement Agent is executing a Magistrates Distress Warrant. If this card has been left for a case other than a Magistrates warrant please contact Marston Group immediately on 08450743749.
I will be re-attending yopur premises, with a locksmith if necessary, to conclude this matter. I may if appropriate request authority to use the above powers of entry.

Today I come home to a letter posted through my door stating im big red letters, FINAL NOTICE. Despite previous motices and attendance you have failed to pay the outstanding sums due. Take notice that unless full payment is made immediately I shall remove your goods for sale at public auction. If payment is not made immediately you will be liable for substantial additional costs.

I rang the Enforcement Agent who said they are due to come round again tomorrow to gain entry to my house and will bring a locksmith if necessary as I said I will be at work again just like previous days. I have nothing for him to take of any value as you can imagine due to my bankruptcy. Please can someone help me?

Thanks

Tony

[CleverClogs]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

Will anyone other than Marstons' oafs be present at your house tomorrow?

[tony12uk]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

I'm not sure, he just said on the phone that he may bring a locksmith with him!

Also, I'm sure it doesn't matter much but I have a dog and although he is friendly I do not know how he will act if someone breaks into my house. Where would I stand if he was to protect my/his house?

[labman]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

It is unlikely they would break in. This is only ever used as a final resort.

Have you read this?

Bailiffs and PARKING TICKET (PCN) enforcement. - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Also, have you talked to the OR about this for advice?

[tony12uk]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

Thank you Labman. I've just read the post and it says they can enter your property without permission but cannot break into your property so does that mean if I am not home they cannot gain entry and the same if I do not answer if I am home. Or is using a locksmith not classed as breaking into your property. Slightly confused sorry. I do want to pay this and can probably just about afford it now that I have gone bankrupt and have no unsecured debts to pay but only if it is the original amount when with the courts. If they have no success in collecting the amount due will they send it back to the courts?

Thank you all for your help.

[labman]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

They have to seek permission to force entry - the powers are very very rarely used, and used to scare people more than anything.

Did you also read the bit about how to stop the bailiffs? Are you able to do this?

I am personally unaware what the TEC would do, but the person who wrote it is knowledgeable.

there is no doubt bailiffs enforcing Magistrates' Court fines has the power to force entry to premises in order to be able to distrain, where this is reasonable and necessary.

While this must be borne in mind, a bailiffs' company may only think it worthwhile incurring the cost of a locksmith's attendance where there is a very strong likelihood of distrainable goods being found which would justify the forced entry.

In relation to the law quoted by the bailiff, authoritative sources state about Section 4A:

"Bailiffs have suggested that these powers apply to road traffic penalties or to any orders made by a magistrates' court - this is incorrect."


The best thing to do, should the 'how to stop the bailiffs advice' fail, would be to phone the bailiffs (record the conversation if possible for proof) and offer affordable instalments. If they refuse, make a formal complaint and notify the court.

Obviously I cannot guarantee anything, but I do know I've seen hundreds of people in this same situation (and been in it myself) and not once have I heard of a case of forceful entry.

[tony12uk]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

I've just been thinking and if I contact the court and pay them the original fine would that cancel everything?

[Guest]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

Hi all

I have had a speeding fine that I have been unable to pay due to my dire financial circumstances. My house was repossessed one year ago and I was left with approximately £40,000 of negative equity. Only last week I declared myself bankrupt.

A fine is a "statutory debt" and is not normally negated by a bankruptcy unless you intend to change your country of residence leaving no assets behind.

Yesterday I had a leaflet posted through my door whilst I was out. It reads 'I Kaden Smith attended your address today to execute a Distress Warrent issued against you by Manchester Magistrates Court. The amount outstanding is £675.

Its normal practice to leave an A4 note hanging out of your letterbox so it can be seen from outside. Bailiffs do this to see if anyone is home because the note will have been taken in.

I have been refused entry/unable to contact you at the address and believe that you are willfully trying to evade payment of your account. You should be aware that there exists a power under Schedule 4A of the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act to enable us to enter your property, BY FORCE, using locksmiths where required, to execute this warrant.
This power may be utilised if the Enforcement Agent is executing a Magistrates Distress Warrant.

All sounds familair Marston guff. Does the card look like this?

If this card has been left for a case other than a Magistrates warrant please contact Marston Group immediately on 08450743749.
I will be re-attending yopur premises, with a locksmith if necessary, to conclude this matter. I may if appropriate request authority to use the above powers of entry.

Today I come home to a letter posted through my door stating im big red letters, FINAL NOTICE. Despite previous motices and attendance you have failed to pay the outstanding sums due. Take notice that unless full payment is made immediately I shall remove your goods for sale at public auction. If payment is not made immediately you will be liable for substantial additional costs.

I rang the Enforcement Agent who said they are due to come round again tomorrow to gain entry to my house and will bring a locksmith if necessary as I said I will be at work again just like previous days. I have nothing for him to take of any value as you can imagine due to my bankruptcy. Please can someone help me?

No locksmith is going risk a criminal record by assisting a bailiff to break into homes,

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/25


...and Ive never come across a magistrate giving permission for a bailiff to break in to a home. Its only given to police for drug raids and crime detection etc.

You have plenty of redress.

There is no legislation enabling bailiffs to charge you fees on top of the fine See: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=32512 and use the template to get the case back to Court administration

You can make a Form 4 complaint against the bailiff, for charging you fees for which, he was not lawfully entitled: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=32516

Do bear in mind, there is a myth doing the rounds, that Form 4 complainants have been ordered to pay costs of the bailiffs legal representation. However, a detailed search of court records show no such order ever being made against a Form 4 complainant. The myth originated from a bailiffs website, and purported as a fact by an unqualified adviser on another consumer rights website.

[tony12uk]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

Thank you so much for your help Happy Contrails.

With regards to the card it is exactly the same apart from the addition of it being a warrant issued by Manchester Magistrates Court.

You mention the template to get the case back to Court administration but it was a template requesting a refund of bailiffs fees once you have paid the bailiff the full amount due. I'm not able to pay them the full amount they are asking for.

Do I complete the Form 4 complaint now or after my attempt to get them to send the bill back to the court?

I really appreciate your help.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

Do bear in mind, there is a myth doing the rounds, that Form 4 complainants have been ordered to pay costs of the bailiffs legal representation. However, a detailed search of court records show no such order ever being made against a Form 4 complainant. The myth originated from a bailiffs website,

Wasn't it Marstons?

I have long suspected that the publicity they gave to that alleged case - it never appeared in the press or any other news media - may have been intended to deter genuine complaints and thus may have been an attempt to pervert the course of justice.

and purported as a fact by an unqualified adviser on another consumer rights website.

Was she one of the silly witches on Money Squandering Expert?

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

As far as I am aware, a locksmith can only assist in effecting an entry where a court has authorised this or in the case of Environmental Health Officers enforcing noise pollution legislation (people with hi-fis blaring out and keeping the neighbourhood awake all hours) or evictions.

Magistrates have to authorise forcible entry to premises by way of a warrant where the police intend to search a premises for something like drugs. Only in certain circumstances may police make a forcible entry without a Magistrates' warrant.

From what I have read about Marstons, they seem to have little respect for the law or the rights of those they have dealings with.

Please check with the Magistrates' Court involved to check whether they have authorised a forced entry. If not, report the bailiff to the police under Section 3, Criminal Damage Act 1971 (Threats to Cause Criminal Damage) and show the card to the police. That is evidence. As stated by Happy Contrails, no locksmith is going to risk a criminal record, let alone a court appearance or being arrested, assisting a bailiff to make a forced entry of dubious legality. Continue with the complaint against the bailiff for possible misrepresentation of authority. If you have not already done so, consider making a formal complaint to the Ministry of Justice (MoJ) about Marstons' activities and that of their bailiffs. Only by letting the MoJ know what's going on will they be able to take action and, ultimately, close down bailiff companies who cross the line.

[Guest]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

I speak from first hand experience, Marston will only reform under a new name if its credit license was revoked. It wont be the first time, which is partly why they used to be called Drakes.

Complaining to the MoJ probably wont achieve much. Going for the jugular is easier, and petition their credit license renewal requires very little work on the complainants part.

I have noted your comment on section 3 of the CDA. I wasnt aware the police would consider such a complaint.

If the OP is willing, we can test it. I'll draft a template letter, which others can follow if the complaint is taken up.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

Threatening to break your door down or cause any form of damage to your property without lawful reason or reasonable excuse is an arrestable offence under Section 3, Criminal Damage Act 1971 and Section 24/24A, Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. If a written statement of complaint is made to the police, they are obliged to investigate and take action where required. They don't have to act on a verbal complaint. I'm a retired policeman and speaking from experience.

I agree that opposing the renewal of Marstons' CCA licence is probably the quickest and easiest way of putting them out of business.

In order to make a statement of complaint to the police, it is best to attend a police station and have them take it from you. Certain points have to be included in a statement of complaint and a formal certificate has to be signed on the statement form by the complainant. The statement also has to conform to a certain format.

Generally speaking, criminal offences have "points to prove" that are contained within the statutory definition of the offence. This is why it is best to have the police take a statement of complaint from you.

Bailiffs know themselves they are treading on dangerous ground, legally, when they threaten to force an entry without a warrant authorising them to do so. Also, please bear in mind that ignorance of the law is neither a defence or an excuse. The rule is "No authority, no excuse. You're nicked". It's as simple as that. Police officers are under a duty to ensure bailiffs stay within the law when carrying out their obligations and to take action against them when they cross the line.

[Guest]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

How does a complainant obtain the statement form? Is this something that can be downloaded & posted to police?

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston Group threatening Locksmiths

How does a complainant obtain the statement form? Is this something that can be downloaded & posted to police?

Statement of Witness forms, to give them their correct title, are kept at police stations and are also carried on most operational police vehicles. Unfortunately, members of the public cannot download them from a website and post them to the police.

When making a Statement of Complaint, it is best taken by someone who knows what has to be included in it in order for the police to take action. In the case of Threats to Cause Criminal Damage, which is contrary to Section 2, Criminal Damage Act 1971, not Section 3, as previously stated, it has to be shown that the person making the threat did not have lawful authority to make the threat, that they put the person to whom they made the threat in fear of the threat being carried out and that the person against whom the threat is made would not consent to the damage being caused (Negative Consent). Please remember that statements will be used as evidence in court proceedings and they must meet certain criteria and standards that the police are trained in, hence, why I urge anyone wishing to make a complaint against a certificated bailiff who has crossed the line to make a statement of complaint to the police at a police station.

I hope this explains the situation regarding statements of complaint.