JBW Group Bailiffs and Parking Fine

**Amethyst** · 12th May 2009, 20:55:PM

Re: JBW Group Baliffs and Parking Fine

Hi Tonyo and welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have has a hell of a day ((((((((((hug))))))))))))). Someone will be along soon to help

If you have a read of the bailiff guide - Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles

The local authority is vicariously liable and are equally culpable for any unlawful actions carried out by any of their agents and this must be communicated to them in the strongest possible terms.

Ame
xx

**Amy** · 12th May 2009, 21:26:PM

Re: JBW Group Baliffs and Parking Fine

First thing in the morning, or even now, I would telephone the mobile number and tell whoever answers or leave a message that your next telephone call will be to the police to report your vehicle as stolen and that you will be furnishing them with the contact details left on your car this morning unless they return it first thing in the morning. There is no debt, they cannot hold your vehicle.

If this fine is for a Parking Charge Notice then the bailiff needs to be certificated (details on how to check are in the link Ame has given). If he is certificated then you should complain about his behaviour by completing and filing the Form 4 (details of this are also in the same link).

The council also need a rocket for this. They must have instructed the bailiffs to take action against you and so they are equally culpable here. They should not have left you to deal with this. Send a complaint letter to them too.

If you need any help, please come back and ask. Depending on what the bailiff says to you - we can deal with these "fees" once your car is returned.

**Guest** · 12th May 2009, 21:44:PM

Re: JBW Group Baliffs and Parking Fine

If you have paid the ticket direct to the council, regardless of whether by instalments, then no bailiff's fees are due. Since you have now had the inconvenience of the car being towed, despite no money being owed on the parking ticket, you can file a claim against the council comprising of all your financial losses including the loss of use of your car and you have a right to demand that the council pay you compensation for the distress and anguish that this has caused.

The bailiff is attempting to charge at least £752 in fees yet the law prescribing bailiffs fees for unpaid parking tickets is Schedule 1 of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993. It provides £11.20 for sending a letter and 28% of the debt. The maximum the bailiff's fees could be are £11.20 and 28% of £155. The law only allows reasonable costs for transporting goods and storing goods subject to levy, however, a recent case in the Central London County Court has clarified a number of issues. Look here for more details London Motorists Action Group - Detailed assesment of Marstons Bailiff - National implications

The bailiff has committed an offence contrary to Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. It is called fraud by false representation because he tried to charge you £525 and later demanded £752. Keep all the documents showing those fees, they are crucial evidence confirming fraud has taken place. You can ask Police to investigate the crime. Always ask for a crime number and if they refuse to take action, or fob you off, then get the name of the officer and file a complaint of misfeasance with the IPCC.

You should contact the council without delay and ensure that they are fully aware that they are responsible for the actions of their agents and that they must instruct the bailiffs to return your car to you without delay. You should also ensure that you document any damage to your car and include this in your claim. You should also separately file a Form 4 complaint against the bailiff himself.

**Tonyo** · 13th May 2009, 01:02:AM

Re: JBW Group Baliffs and Parking Fine

Thank you Amy and Cetelco for your replies.

They have been very helpful and have given me a lot of comfort that I am not completely powerless to do anything against these guys.

A few facts to the case.

1. I notified the police before the vehicle was removed - they attended site and confirmed that the bailiffs were certified. They said they could not do anything to stop the action - that I will need to take it up through legal channels. As such, can I legally still report it stolen? When I knew who took it - without my permission I hastily add?

2. The bailiff had the nerve to ask for my keys while towing the car away - saying that it will fetch more in the auction. I did not hand over either the keys nor car documents.

3. The bailiffs initially left a sticker on my car indicating it will be towed on the 13th May, 2009 at 9:00am if I do not pay up. They towed it a few minutes to 10:00am on the 12th May - a day early.

3. The Citizens Advice Bureau advised I contact JBW Group, when I did, they immediately told me the admin team were 'already looking into' my case. I was called back around 14:00 by a representative of JBW Group who tried to negotiate that I accept to pay a reduced amount. My response to that was no way, that I was not going to succumb to intimidation and that they should return my car immediately. They said they will call back - haven't heard anything back from them.

4. I requested they produce a warrant or some paper work showing their authority to take my car - before it was towed away. I was told that they will send the documents in the post to me.

5. I specifically told the bailiff that the car was used for my employment - they have now rendered me unable to go to work.

6. The council accepted that they received my written letter informing them that I will be paying in instalments. The details are on their system. However, they said that they did not agree formally to the arrangement - despite me following the letter up with a phone call and them accepting all my payments.

7. My written letter to the council was received on 20th January 2009, the first instalment was made on 24th February, 2009. The council told me they instructed their bailiffs 20th March, 2009 after receipt of my letter and first payment. I was unaware that they had involved the bailiffs. They then received the next instalmemt April 30th and the final instalment 12th May 2009.

8. The Councils position is that the fine has been settled in full by me. That they have no further dealings with me on the subject - However, that I may still be liable to costs incurred by the bailiffs and that I should sort these costs out with the bailiffs directly.

Thanks, I will start the process of filing a complaint against the council, first thing in the morning.

Any ideas on how best to stop JBW Group from actually putting my car up for auction in 6 days time? From the way they have been acting i would not be surprised if they attempt to auction off the car - then leave me to try and drag them through the courts.

**Tonyo** · 13th May 2009, 07:31:AM

Re: JBW Group Baliffs and Parking Fine

Hi All,

Another twist to the story.

At approximately 8:00am this morning I was awoken with the sound of a tow truck, looked through the window and there was my car - being returned.

I am yet to examine it for damage and will still decide whether or not to drag them through the courts. If they attempt to demand any money whats so ever from me I will definitely take them through the courts.

Well the whole incident has been rather mentally and emotionally draining. Need to dash off to work now. I will provide an update later.

Thanks once more to all responses and suggestions to my initial post.

**Amethyst** · 13th May 2009, 07:45:AM

Re: JBW Group Baliffs and Parking Fine

Wow great news....hope the council gave the bailiffs a rollicking. I would guess they will try and claim their costs from you, but hopefully you feel more confident with the information Cetelco and Amy have given you to challenge them.

Have a good day

**Amy** · 13th May 2009, 09:53:AM

Re: JBW Group Baliffs and Parking Fine

Excellent news about your car, but I would not let either the council or the bailiff get away with this.

The fact that they have returned your car shows that you have them over a barrel. If you do decide to sue I'm sure the national press would be very interested in your struggle against these bullies. Not to mention the fact that you can sue for a nice tidy sum on the grounds listed above and in your own post here "... the whole incident has been rather mentally and emotionally draining."

You should at the very least file the Form 4 complaint against the bailiff. If your complaint is upheld the Judge may order compensation to be paid to you, which is usually paid from the bailiff's £10,000 bond. He may also cancel the bailiff's certificate, this normally means the loss of his employment as he will no longer be entitled to levy distress for rent, road traffic debts, council tax or non-domestic rates or he may dismiss your complaint.

I think you should teach them a lesson and I also think they are scared that you will do just that.

**ExBailiff31** · 16th September 2011, 14:33:PM

Re: JBW Group Bailiffs and Parking Fine

Hi all,
Understandably these situations are very distressing but lets get clear on a few points first, 1) you cant report the car as stolen as the Bailiff has given you fair warning of removal and are acting under local authority for a legitimate parking offence inspite of the fact that the gentleman in question had paid the fine in full that morning I would argue that this was done after the vehicle had been clamped. 2) as the vehicle had been clamped the Bailiff has the right to pursue his fees including any removal and storage fees and the local authority who originally instructed him is now powerless to do anything as the fine is now settled. and finally the vehicle was probably brought back to you as a gesture of good will given the circumstances and unless you had photographic evidence of the vehicles condition prior to it's removal then again you will be wasting your time i'm afraid in trying to "drag them through the courts"

Sorry to sound a little negative but having worked in this industry for 11 years I understand Bailiff law and powers very well and I would be more than happy to help or advise anyone in such a situation.

**CleverClogs** · 16th September 2011, 17:28:PM

Re: JBW Group Baliffs and Parking Fine

Originally posted by Amy View Post

If your complaint is upheld the Judge may order compensation to be paid to you, which is usually paid from the bailiff's £10,000 bond. He may also cancel the bailiff's certificate

:flypig:

**Gorang** · 17th September 2011, 19:34:PM

Re: JBW Group Bailiffs and Parking Fine

Hi Exbailiff31

I am interested in your view on this please

3. The bailiffs initially left a sticker on my car indicating it will be towed on the 13th May, 2009 at 9:00am if I do not pay up. They towed it a few minutes to 10:00am on the 12th May - a day early.

Surley this IS theft as they can not say or notify one thing then do sumit different

My view on this is

because the fine was paid in full on the same day the car was clamped, wether before or after, makes NO difference, the fact is the debt was paid in full THAT DAY

then give it that day for the paperwork to go through saying debt now paid in full

which means the bailiff would of been notified at the office the very next day (the day that he was supposed to tow the car) that the debt was settled

so in affect if he had done what he said he would do then there wouldn't of been any problem other than the fact the car was clamped for a day

and I also think that it WAS theft because he had already stated that the car would be towed on the 13th NOT the 12th, therfor THEFT in my view

But I am interested in your view on this please Exbailiff31

Thanks

**ExBailiff31** · 18th September 2011, 10:49:AM

Re: JBW Group Bailiffs and Parking Fine

Hi GORANG,

The reason the Bailiff leaves a sticker on your car with a set date is so as to allow you time to contact them as you may be on holiday or at work or a night worker and therefore be asleep etc that fact that you contacted him when you did voiods this date as he can act there and then.
I understand you paid the bill on that day which is fair enough however the Bailiff clamped your vehicle prior to this happening and so he can charge for this and removal and storage costs as well and the reason it would stand is so as to stop people paying the council direct when they discover the clamp and not paying the Bailiff his fees (after all thats how they make their money)
You cannot claim Theft as he is acting under a warrant issued by a judge and in your case fees are still outstanding - example if you had paid the bill in full on Monday and the Bailiff clamped you on Tuesday you would have been entitled to have the clamp removed at no cost what so ever but if the Bailiff clamped you at 07.00am and you paid in full minus fees at 07.30am then his fees would still stand and he may remove your vehicle and sell at public auction to recover these costs.
I understand your frustration at this situation and perhaps councils need to have better systems in place as they are happy to take your money but once there is a problem they don't want to know!

Sorry if it's not what you want to hear but you did after all get your car back without paying any fees!

**Caspar** · 18th September 2011, 11:08:AM

Re: JBW Group Bailiffs and Parking Fine

I have to say ex-Bailiff, I was extremely sceptical when I first saw your user name as you will understand we get bailiffs coming and going, usually fighting their cause and being pretty derogatory.

Much as I despise, and will always despise the job you do, I appreciate it exists, so someone has to do it. Having said that, it is good so far, to read information from a bailiff who appears to have a balanced view of things and will criticise their own as much as stick up for them - basically tell it as it is.

I think in time you will gain a lot of respect with this attitude, but you will face an uphill struggle as history dictates bailiffs are bailiffs, and that is 99.9% of the time bad news. If you continue to give balanced advice as you have so far, people will begin to respect your views and I certainly appreciate your contributions so far. It may not be a popular view, but there we go!

**Gorang** · 18th September 2011, 13:09:PM

Re: JBW Group Bailiffs and Parking Fine

Hi GORANG,

The reason the Bailiff leaves a sticker on your car with a set date is so as to allow you time to contact them as you may be on holiday or at work or a night worker and therefore be asleep etc that fact that you contacted him when you did voiods this date as he can act there and then. Ahh that makes sense, Thanks as this is why I asked for your view as I didn't know this

I understand you paid the bill on that day which is fair enough however the Bailiff clamped your vehicle prior to this happening and so he can charge for this and removal and storage costs as well and the reason it would stand is so as to stop people paying the council direct when they discover the clamp and not paying the Bailiff his fees (after all thats how they make their money)
Again thanks for the calrification s I didn't know this

You cannot claim Theft as he is acting under a warrant issued by a judge and in your case fees are still outstanding - example if you had paid the bill in full on Monday and the Bailiff clamped you on Tuesday you would have been entitled to have the clamp removed at no cost what so ever but if the Bailiff clamped you at 07.00am and you paid in full minus fees at 07.30am then his fees would still stand and he may remove your vehicle and sell at public auction to recover these costs. And agian thanks as this makes it a lot clearer. So it would need to be proved that the debt was paid at 7am and the clamp was put on at 7.30 in order to avoid the bailiff fees

I understand your frustration at this situation and perhaps councils need to have better systems in place as they are happy to take your money but once there is a problem they don't want to know! I support you in this view that its the council that needs a good boot up the jacksy to put better systems in place, but I think we have 10 times more chace of winning the lottery lol

Sorry if it's not what you want to hear but you did after all get your car back without paying any fees! I applogise if I came accross abrupt or negitive in any way with my post above, as that was NEVER my intention at all, I simply wanted clarification of the reasons behind your answers, and I also very much appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions, as they have cleared up a few things I (and I'm sure a few more people) was unsure of so I thank you for that

I also mirror what casper said above as I think people that do a job like yours have never been and prob never will be liked but that is ONLY part and parcel of the job,
But the cold reality of it is
IT is ONLY a job, its NOT personal (altho some do make it personal, but that can go with any profession)

For me, you are living proof that the proffession does NOT reflect the PERSON

I for one, very much admire someone like yourself that is willing to come onto a forum like this and keep members right with what your profession can and can't do

In my view for doing this, you are worth your weight in gold, on the forum as you bring true and factual clarification to questions, no matter if it is what the member wants to hear or not

And it is the fact that you do it HONESTLY, TRUTHFULLY and FACTUALLY

and for that I thank you very much and give you my upmost respect

I for one hope that you will continue to advise peeps on the forum and help as many as you can because as I said above

A PERSON like you IS worth their weight in gold on the forum

Anyway thats enough of singing your praises

So get back to work (in here) and help some more members LOL

Thanks for taking the time to answer me,

also I appologise to Tonyo for hijacking your thread for a while

**Amy** · 18th September 2011, 13:39:PM

Re: JBW Group Bailiffs and Parking Fine

Originally posted by Caspar View Post

I have to say ex-Bailiff, I was extremely sceptical when I first saw your user name as you will understand we get bailiffs coming and going, usually fighting their cause and being pretty derogatory.

You must be thinking of the other site because LB has never had any ex bailiffs post here.

Originally posted by Caspar View Post

Having said that, it is good so far, to read information from a bailiff who appears to have a balanced view of things and will criticise their own as much as stick up for them - basically tell it as it is.

Ironically a balanced view unlike yours since as you admit, your view of merely the user name was not in the least objective.

JBW Group Bailiffs and Parking Fine

JBW Group Bailiffs and Parking Fine

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Announcement

Court Claim ?