That referendum ...

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...

I have mentioned the Northern Ireland problem before and if they have to restrict freedom of movement across that boarder there will be an almighty uproar. Big trouble there. Already grumbling.
By the way, Wales voted to leave and received as much money as anyone from the EU. You couldn’t go down a road without seeing ‘EU development Fund’ signs a few years ago.

[MIKE770]

Re: That referendum ...

I have mentioned the Northern Ireland problem before and if they have to restrict freedom of movement across that boarder there will be an almighty uproar. Big trouble there. Already grumbling.
By the way, Wales voted to leave and received as much money as anyone from the EU. You couldn’t go down a road without seeing ‘EU development Fund’ signs a few years ago.

so true but I also saw those signs years ago in Kyrenia Northern cyprus (Turkish area)!

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

Being in the Common Market but not being in the EU is like expecting to play a round of golf at the club without paying the membership fees.

The last vote was about The Common Market the question was

DO YOU THINK THE UNITED KINGDOM SHOULD STAY IN THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY (THE COMMON MARKET)?
No mention of Political control or all the other things it has become

[Crazy council]

Re: That referendum ...

The silly thing is I'm not dark skinned ... I'm a red haired white lass with Irish blood and a Yorkshire accent :lol:

redhead, female, Irish blood, made in Yorkshire... i bet your OH take the bins out when told..

Theres reports of rasisum starting here, but i wander if it will go the other way, i wander if any UKIP candidates, or far right groups get targeted by remainers. ( cause thats who the uk are now, divided between exciters and remainers )

[Celestine]

Re: That referendum ...

OK, so can I ask why do we think the EU is to blame for our problems?

Is it that we have actually become so despairing of our local/central government that we just have voted CHANGE! ANY BL**DY CHANGE!!?


I worked in local government for 5 years, so I have a strong idea of where the real problems lie.

Elected Members - in my time I only met 2-3 that were genuine and sincere. The rest were like this: http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/38009..._disabled_bay/

(that happened on my watch and the fallout was huge, he tried to blame me for allowing a reporter in the car park!)

Watching a local election council chamber debate was surreal. Think 4yr olds tea party.

The Officers overall were very good, I'd say 70% + were hardworking and decent. 30% are pen pushers, robots, can't think. But the Officers are controlled by the Members, so a two year office efficiency project I undertook was binned the moment a new council was elected. In reality that amounted to hundreds of hours of lost time, but no one ever counts THAT waste.

But if I'm being really truthful, the people who were responsible for enforcing the daftest rules, the H&S culture gone mad, were the Unions. They are embedded in council buildings and they are good at resisting any sensible change, even objecting to a new energy saving lightbulb because it might cause stress to workers.

When the Unions first came about they were essential and brought about huge change, but we now have pretty decent employment laws and had the government not destroyed tribunals with fee rises, we'd have a fair system. I personally thought the Unions were 'justifying' their existence. Also, the only time I ever saw them help an employee was a 'political' case. Many others did not get direct help for various 'technical' reasons.

[MIKE770]

Re: That referendum ...

& So "Yes Minister" was so near the truth - MPs come & Go but the Civil Service is always there to advise/tell them, failure to head warning no doubt come to mind by Arrogant Politicians ??? just a thought!

[MIKE770]

Re: That referendum ...

OK, so can I ask why do we think the EU is to blame for our problems?

Is it that we have actually become so despairing of our local/central government that we just have voted CHANGE! ANY BL**DY CHANGE!!?


I worked in local government for 5 years, so I have a strong idea of where the real problems lie.

Elected Members - in my time I only met 2-3 that were genuine and sincere. The rest were like this: http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/38009..._disabled_bay/

(that happened on my watch and the fallout was huge, he tried to blame me for allowing a reporter in the car park!)

Watching a local election council chamber debate was surreal. Think 4yr olds tea party.

The Officers overall were very good, I'd say 70% + were hardworking and decent. 30% are pen pushers, robots, can't think. But the Officers are controlled by the Members, so a two year office efficiency project I undertook was binned the moment a new council was elected. In reality that amounted to hundreds of hours of lost time, but no one ever counts THAT waste.

But if I'm being really truthful, the people who were responsible for enforcing the daftest rules, the H&S culture gone mad, were the Unions. They are embedded in council buildings and they are good at resisting any sensible change, even objecting to a new energy saving lightbulb because it might cause stress to workers.

When the Unions first came about they were essential and brought about huge change, but we now have pretty decent employment laws and had the government not destroyed tribunals with fee rises, we'd have a fair system. I personally thought the Unions were 'justifying' their existence. Also, the only time I ever saw them help an employee was a 'political' case. Many others did not get direct help for various 'technical' reasons.

Remember Decades ago a colleague was taken very ill and when recovering in hospital the company (Large one) dismissed him as saying he would be unable to work again ! I as shop steward in those days got the Union in on this and it went to court! the Company stuck to their Guns in court _ ooppppssss The Bench recognised the defendant as the Clerk of the Court! (his new position with them. )

[wales01man]

Re: That referendum ...

Celestine
I have never blamed the EU for our problems more likely the Politicians that run the UK and Europe they care little for the people during the last recession the Bankers were bailed out by the Government with nothing for the people .
after this result and the mess the main political parties are in time for a change maybe a Country for the people a mix of all sides of political ideals to come together for the future of us ALL

[Openlaw15]

Re: That referendum ...

Being in the Common Market but not being in the EU is like expecting to play a round of golf at the club without paying the membership fees.

In a Full Economic Union a county loses its sovereignty, in that its domestic laws and policies including fiscal are substantially affected. The analogous golf club requires security personnel but the Full Economic Union wants its own army c/o the Lisbon Treaty. This European Union project was supposed to be only about trade, ie making EU Treaty laws to benefit trade: ie freedom of: persons (to and extent); goods; services; capital. The project is being run by foreign elitists and it's like a signing a contract for contract to find out that its terms keep changing. How would you like to be in contract for something that you didn't sign up to? So, it's not just about paying the fees it's the direction of where the EU project is going. It is too much control: i don't believe that mankind conjures up projects for benign purposes. In my view, the EU is not benign - it looks it right now but it will keep changing until the UK (if it did stay IN) would no longer have its own laws at all. This is the problem in that many REMAINERS were looking at the EU project in the short terms but in the longer term it's clear to me that democracy will be a thing of the past. We can already see how the EU foreign bureaucrats have little regard for the average Joe Bloggs. In my view the EU is a nefarious entity but presently supplies candy to the kids (the Member State countries).

[Celestine]

Re: That referendum ...

[Kati]

Re: That referendum ...

redhead, female, Irish blood, made in Yorkshire... i bet your OH take the bins out when told.

:lol: OH is a Brummie/Austrian

[Celestine]

Re: That referendum ...

Remember Decades ago a colleague was taken very ill and when recovering in hospital the company (Large one) dismissed him as saying he would be unable to work again ! I as shop steward in those days got the Union in on this and it went to court! the Company stuck to their Guns in court _ ooppppssss The Bench recognised the defendant as the Clerk of the Court! (his new position with them. )

Yes , Decades Ago, the Unions were essential. There was a lot of work to do.....but can we all honestly agree on that now? Being a staunch 'unionists' daughter, my encounters with the Unions at work was very disappointing.

[PAWS]

Re: That referendum ...

Sorry Wales01 but no one has yet come up with an example of how we were bullied by Europe that convinces me we were better off leaving. No union is perfect but every ‘oppression’ that has been blamed on the EU turns out to be a domestic issue or a fabrication by the press. All others such as freedom of movement and human rights are of great benefit.
I think we should also take a step back from justifying the decision by saying ‘Countries like France also want to leave’ because associating ourselves with comments from Le Pen is outrageous. That family make the Himmlers look like the Waltons.

[MIKE770]

Re: That referendum ...

Yes , Decades Ago, the Unions were essential. There was a lot of work to do.....but can we all honestly agree on that now? Being a staunch 'unionists' daughter, my encounters with the Unions at work was very disappointing.

Changed must admit some people have said these days!

[Openlaw15]

Re: That referendum ...

OK, so can I ask why do we think the EU is to blame for our problems?

Is it that we have actually become so despairing of our local/central government that we just have voted CHANGE! ANY BL**DY CHANGE!!?


I worked in local government for 5 years, so I have a strong idea of where the real problems lie.

Elected Members - in my time I only met 2-3 that were genuine and sincere. The rest were like this: http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/38009..._disabled_bay/

(that happened on my watch and the fallout was huge, he tried to blame me for allowing a reporter in the car park!)

Watching a local election council chamber debate was surreal. Think 4yr olds tea party.

The Officers overall were very good, I'd say 70% + were hardworking and decent. 30% are pen pushers, robots, can't think. But the Officers are controlled by the Members, so a two year office efficiency project I undertook was binned the moment a new council was elected. In reality that amounted to hundreds of hours of lost time, but no one ever counts THAT waste.

But if I'm being really truthful, the people who were responsible for enforcing the daftest rules, the H&S culture gone mad, were the Unions. They are embedded in council buildings and they are good at resisting any sensible change, even objecting to a new energy saving lightbulb because it might cause stress to workers.

When the Unions first came about they were essential and brought about huge change, but we now have pretty decent employment laws and had the government not destroyed tribunals with fee rises, we'd have a fair system. I personally thought the Unions were 'justifying' their existence. Also, the only time I ever saw them help an employee was a 'political' case. Many others did not get direct help for various 'technical' reasons.

Countries like Greece and Ireland, Spain nearly went bankrupt through being in the EU. If the UK had signed up to the Euro currency our country would have been massively affected to its detriment. The pro Euro groups/ the economists were saying at the time if you don't adopt the Euro it'll causes major economic problems but the truth is, it didn't.