hello all

[Viola-Cesario]

hello to everyone on the forum, I probably like a lot of people found the forum through necessity, I have a pressing problem with the family court system, that I have to address alone as there is no legal aid, and I am not in a position to pay a lawyer, I have been very badly treated and am seeking redress, the problem is complex and may be very difficult to solve, it might also be described as an interesting puzzle to unpick, it involves the Lugano Convention if anyone is familiar with? also discrimination and very strange behaviour (to me) of a court official

[leclerc]

Re: hello all

Ok, been reading about this after quickly looking at your thread. Here is the details for those reading it. page 4 is probably the staring point:

[Viola-Cesario]

Re: hello all

Ok, been reading about this after quickly looking at your thread. Here is the details for those reading it. page 4 is probably the staring point:

Hi, my starting point is to try to get a Judicial Review of a family court decision is that a process a litigant in person is reasonably able to complete I wondered?

[Openlaw15]

Re: hello all

hello to everyone on the forum, I probably like a lot of people found the forum through necessity, I have a pressing problem with the family court system, that I have to address alone as there is no legal aid, and I am not in a position to pay a lawyer, I have been very badly treated and am seeking redress, the problem is complex and may be very difficult to solve, it might also be described as an interesting puzzle to unpick, it involves the Lugano Convention if anyone is familiar with? also discrimination and very strange behaviour (to me) of a court official

Hello Viola, can you tell me your facts, I have studied EU law at qualifying degree level although I am not a qualified lawyer. If you're from another country of the European Union (technical term, Member State), you have certain rights based on EU law anyway.

[Viola-Cesario]

Re: hello all

hi,thank you so much for replying, I'm a British national, I have had a default debt registered at a court in Eastern Finland in 2003 I was not advised of this hearing which was an appeal hearing apparently, it was registered at a bulk centre here under the Lugano Convention here, naturally I appealed requesting it be set aside. I have had two horrifying appearances in Beverley Magistrates Court each time the court advisor with reference to her "line manager" refused to allow me to bring my appeal as I wished to present it to the Magistrates. The court advisor only allowed the grounds that I wasn't at the court hearing in question, or advised of said hearing, then requested additional information from Finland which hasn't been forthcoming of course. the court advisor has now allowed the appeal to be adjourned indefinitely until this so called information from Finland arrives, the magistrates openly accepted they didn't understand the case, and behaved like nodding dogs to the court advisor's direction, the appeal could have been granted on other grounds I believe, but I was refused to ask the Magistrates to consider these, the human rights act also covers this I believe? they said that this matter could continue for years which of course is ridiculous. I would like to also make an effective complaint against the court advisor whom drove a coach and horses through my rights to a fair appeal could you also point me in the right direction for that by any chance?

[wales01man]

Re: hello all

A magistrates court to set aside a civil debt?

[Viola-Cesario]

Re: hello all

yes thats correct

[Viola-Cesario]

Re: hello all

just to clarify a bit more this is supposedly child maintenance arrears for my youngest, actually its not, they use that (maintenance) to invoke automatic registration of debt, I have found out its part of a social security top up payment paid to my ex partner whom is unemployed long term in Finland. The child is living with me I am supporting him solely, he will be living here, but they are also claiming a payment for his maintenance monthly till he is 18 on top of a large sum in arrears which again I don't owe. Friends in Finland tell me that the country is almost bankrupt due to the Euro crisis and authorities will try anything to get money I suspect they are using the bulk centre system to fraudulently blackmail people to pay money, when you are caught cold with something like this its intimidating actually quite frightening, it says committal to prison if you don't attend the hearing prominently in the first letter you get, then if you pay you don't have to attend of course..I was frightened now, I'm angry its outrageous and I want to fight corner effectively and also have redress.

[Openlaw15]

Re: hello all

hi,thank you so much for replying, I'm a British national, I have had a default debt registered at a court in Eastern Finland in 2003 I was not advised of this hearing which was an appeal hearing apparently, it was registered at a bulk centre here under the Lugano Convention here, naturally I appealed requesting it be set aside. I have had two horrifying appearances in Beverley Magistrates Court each time the court advisor with reference to her "line manager" refused to allow me to bring my appeal as I wished to present it to the Magistrates. The court advisor only allowed the grounds that I wasn't at the court hearing in question, or advised of said hearing, then requested additional information from Finland which hasn't been forthcoming of course. the court advisor has now allowed the appeal to be adjourned indefinitely until this so called information from Finland arrives, the magistrates openly accepted they didn't understand the case, and behaved like nodding dogs to the court advisor's direction, the appeal could have been granted on other grounds I believe, but I was refused to ask the Magistrates to consider these, the human rights act also covers this I believe? they said that this matter could continue for years which of course is ridiculous. I would like to also make an effective complaint against the court advisor whom drove a coach and horses through my rights to a fair appeal could you also point me in the right direction for that by any chance?

Technically Finland judgment may be able enforceable in the UK. However, it is not that straight forward as I believe there are limits to its application. As I understand it, in general Conventions are not strictly law just as the EU Convention on Human Rights was not law in the UK until Parliament made it under law, ie Human Rights Act 1998. How long were you living in Finland at the time for Finland to claim jurisdiction to have this claim against you heard in UK Courts? Are you in England and Wales jurisdiction? Sounds like to me. Tell me how it has got to a Magistrate's Court please. Unless that court advisor advising the Magistrate has a qualification or experience in international law other than EU law, I cannot see how he is qualified. This is definitely an Appeal area on this very important point of law, to a Crown Court for instance.

[Viola-Cesario]

Re: hello all

Hi many thanks again, I wasn't living in Finland at the date of the hearing they are relying upon, they had no jurisdiction over me, I had residence there from 1999/01 the marriage was in Brighton the divorce was in Eastbourne and there was a family agreement on finances, it had nothing to do with Finland at that stage, the child in question was born in Finland in 2000 a local hearing in Finland rubber stamped the family agreement in 2001, I seem to remember, this is an appeal against that decision apparently, so they must be using the child being born in Finland as jurisdiction I wondered?

[Openlaw15]

Re: hello all

Hi many thanks again, I wasn't living in Finland at the date of the hearing they are relying upon, they had no jurisdiction over me, I had residence there from 1999/01 the marriage was in Brighton the divorce was in Eastbourne and there was a family agreement on finances, it had nothing to do with Finland at that stage, the child in question was born in Finland in 2000 a local hearing in Finland rubber stamped the family agreement in 2001, I seem to remember, this is an appeal against that decision apparently, so they must be using the child being born in Finland as jurisdiction I wondered?

This is more family law area. Hmm, ok tell me more briefly about the relationship and the child whilst in Finland. Tell me in particular about this family agreement in 2001. First of all where you're not aware of court proceedings in a Magistrate Court you can normally make a statutory declaration, but where are you in terms of this case - is it just the initial (early) stage etc?

[Viola-Cesario]

Re: hello all

so the relationship was foundering as my ex was homesick and wanted to go home to Finland which I was unprepared for, there were 2 other children born here previously, my ex basically just upped sticks and left me in 98, I wanted to keep the family together and decided to move and start a life there in 99 with my ex, yes I know very foolish, the child in question was conceived almost immediately and was born in may 2000, the divorce agreement was amicable no financial demands were made either way, property/monies divided 50/50, there have been two court hearings I am appealing to have this judgement set aside, the judgement being a recognition of a foreign debt by a bulk centre here, the debt originating from an appeal hearing in Eastern Finland I have know knowledge of the scope or format of the Finnish court and have no paper work from them, I only ever had one page photocopied by the bulk centre which is basically unreasonable, the court advisor just continually says we had to do this it automatic its European Law and mandatory

[Openlaw15]

Re: hello all

so the relationship was foundering as my ex was homesick and wanted to go home to Finland which I was unprepared for, there were 2 other children born here previously, my ex basically just upped sticks and left me in 98, I wanted to keep the family together and decided to move and start a life there in 99 with my ex, yes I know very foolish, the child in question was conceived almost immediately and was born in may 2000, the divorce agreement was amicable no financial demands were made either way, property/monies divided 50/50, there have been two court hearings I am appealing to have this judgement set aside, the judgement being a recognition of a foreign debt by a bulk centre here, the debt originating from an appeal hearing in Eastern Finland I have know knowledge of the scope or format of the Finnish court and have no paper work from them, I only ever had one page photocopied by the bulk centre which is basically unreasonable, the court advisor just continually says we had to do this it automatic its European Law and mandatory

No it's not reasonable - you need to have access to these documents as to have a defence. My question again, what stage are you at with the Magistrate's? Under the Civil/ Criminal Procedure Rules you're allowed to ask for evidence. Well as you lived in Finland after 1996, when I believe this same country entered the European Union, this is how Finland has jurisdiction even though you no longer live there now. The fact you were married and divorced in England is a different matter. The child being born in Finland could be relevant but I would need to know the details of the 'family agreement' as to how this has evolved to be a debt.

[Viola-Cesario]

Re: hello all

hi thanks again, there have been 2 hearings on my appeal to set aside, the 1st adjourned for more information from Finland, the second adjourned indefinitely and the matter returned to the bulk centre because no information was returned from Finland, (they said that it could take years) the court advisor refused to give a raft of information mentioned at the first hearing to me and said at the second hearing she couldn't recall it and had sent it all back to the bulk centre. I have no paperwork at all from Finland the magistrates suggested that I go to Finland to sort this out which I am not going to do. There is no debt between myself and ex partner and the ex partner hasn't asked me for any money, the so called debt related to Finnish Social Security payments paid to my ex partner whom is long term unemployed the Finnish state is saying I owe them a proportion of this.

[Openlaw15]

Re: hello all

hi thanks again, there have been 2 hearings on my appeal to set aside, the 1st adjourned for more information from Finland, the second adjourned indefinitely and the matter returned to the bulk centre because no information was returned from Finland, (they said that it could take years) the court advisor refused to give a raft of information mentioned at the first hearing to me and said at the second hearing she couldn't recall it and had sent it all back to the bulk centre. I have no paperwork at all from Finland the magistrates suggested that I go to Finland to sort this out which I am not going to do. There is no debt between myself and ex partner and the ex partner hasn't asked me for any money, the so called debt related to Finnish Social Security payments paid to my ex partner whom is long term unemployed the Finnish state is saying I owe them a proportion of this.

Was the Finnish social security a joint thing or was it in your ex's name alone? Who's representing the Finnish Social Security, do they have a lawyer there or something else? I'll rephrase the question, what date did the Magistrates hearing commence? When you say appeal it means to a higher court, which case you'd be the appellant. On what grounds were you adjourning on the second matter? I can't help you if you do not answer my questions, for my information.