Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

[explorer121]

Good evening,

six days ago I took delivery of a Fiat from a Motor Trader in Newcastle, I live in Devon. The car arrived with an air bag light on and further developed an engine issue in the first few days.
I agreed to have the local Fiat dealer look at it and five days later the car was diagnosed as having a faulty air bag ECU which would cost @£730 to replace plus they cleaned and made good a clogged up MAP sensor.
The dealer had agreed in writing to have this diagnosis done and now disputes the findings by the Fiat dealer. He has asked for an independent check to be made at his expense.
I have subsequently advised him that I wish to reject the vehicle and he must collect it at his expense.
My questions are :
I believe I have the legal right to reject the sale.
I do not have to keep the vehicle or agree to an independent opinion.
I am entitled to a full refund of £3750 which includes a delivery charge.

As I regard this as very troublesome I am also concerned with the safety issue re the air bag.

Would anyone please be able to inform me of my rights including those regarding delivery as well.

Thank you.

[des8]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

On the basis that what you have said is accurate you can reject the goods by virtue of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, under secs 9 (goods not of satisfactory quality) & probably 11 (goods not as described [?good condition].
Sec 20 details your right to reject and end the contract.
You have to make the goods available for the dealer to collect (or return at his expense)
You are entitled to a full refund.

Did you use a credit card in the purchase?

[explorer121]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Thank you for your reply.
The vehicle was purchase using BACS for the balance and a debit card for the deposit. I understand that these forms offer transaction are not covered under the Consumer Credit Act.
I have also detailed below a further reply from the dealer and feel exteemly prssurised to have the vehicle further diagnosed or I won't get all of my money back.
Dealer :
If you want my honest opinion I think main dealers are useless
& expensive , I really do. They love to put the fear of God in to
vulnerable customers. I think they dig deeper for trouble knowing that a
car has been bought from a used car dealership too.


I
do think the least you can do is give me the opportunity to fix the car
as I do believe the fault to be minor. The light had never shown on the
car since it had been in our possession & it certainly was not
illuminated when the M.O.T was undertaken, and trust me, Michael who
carried out the M.O.T does not do anyone favours when it comes down to
M.O.T's! He is very strict as it his own business which he has ran there
for over 20 years.


What was the symptoms of the apparent faulty MAP sensor?


I
personally would not have cleaned the MAP sensor, I would have replaced
it. They are under £50 brand new (Bosch) & it appears you have been
charged more than that just to have it cleaned.


I
am here to help & take after sales very seriously, I will appoint a
garage near you & I will fix the car without any cost to yourself
100%.


Providing the V5 has not been sent away
to add another owner I will offer you a full refund for the cost of the
car but I cannot be responsible for charges in getting the car back to
us. I cannot be punished for distance.


I understand your frustration but hope we can reach an amicable agreement.


Any comments would be much appreciated.

[des8]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

If you are unhappy with the vehicle, and you have had the fault diagnosed by a main dealer, IMO there is no reason why you should retain the vehicle.
However if you want to give him the chance to repair the vehicle, you do not have to approve his choice of garage.

The "fact" that his friend Mick down the road is very strict, and that MAP sensors are only 50squid are of no matter.
It makes this dealer sound like Arfur Daley!
I'd be more impressed if he arranged for repairs at the main dealer.

If he doesn't like the cost of recovering vehicle from a distance, he shouldn't do distance sales! He is responsible for recovery charges from the place where delivery took place
(consumer rights act 2015Sec 20 (8) )

[explorer121]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Thank you, reassuring to know the facts. I will collect the car from the dealer Monday and write to the dealer with the facts and advise him collection should be made in seven days.

[explorer121]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Good morning,

I have drafted the letter below and would welcome any comments before sending.
To the Dealer.
On 10.1.16 I purchased, and took delivery of, the above vehicle Fiat Grande Punto from you. On 10.1.16 I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality: bulb in the dash replaced, the heater adjusted, the air bag light reset, the air bag light has come on again and the car has developed an electrical fault from cold. It judders starting off and the whole dash looses power momentarily, quite unnerving whilst travelling down the motorway.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods of satisfactory quality and from 13 June 2014 the Consumer Contracts Regulations cover distance selling regulations.

The vehicle is clearly unsafe and unroadworthy. You are therefore in breach of contract.

I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to be reimbursed for its full purchase price of £3750 plus the agreed £149.40, including VAT, diagnosis at Vospers (Fiat dealer).
I look forward to receiving your cheque for this sum within 7 days. If you fail to reimburse me I shall have no alternative but to issue a claim against you in the county court for recovery of the money without further reference to you.

The vehicle is not in use and is ready for collection complete with all documentation at the above address. Should the vehicle not be collected within seven days then I retain the right to dispose of the vehicle by whatever means necessary and any shortfall in monies owed will be collected as detailed above.

Yours faithfully

[des8]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Good morning,

I have drafted the letter below and would welcome any comments before sending.
To the Dealer.
On 10.1.16 I purchased, and took delivery of, the above vehicle Fiat Grande Punto from you.
On 10.1.16 I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality:
-bulb in the dash not functioning,
-the heater needed adjustment,
-the air bag warning light needed resetting, but the warning light has come on again. Fiat Main Dealers, Vospers,have diagnosed a faulty air bag control unit
- the car has developed other faults . It judders when starting off and the whole dash loses power momentarily, quite unnerving whilst travelling down the motorway.
? does this mean all dashboard information disappears or the engine loses power? and if it occurs only when cold after starting off, has the car not warmed up by the time you hit the motor way? This won't IMO necessarily make the car unroadworthy., so I wouldn't put your comment about road worthiness in, as it is a criminal offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods of satisfactory quality and from 13 June 2014 the Consumer Contracts Regulations cover distance selling regulations.

I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to be reimbursed for its full purchase price of £3750 plus the agreed £149.40, including VAT, diagnosis at Vospers (Fiat dealer).
I look forward to receiving your cheque for this sum within 14 days of receipt of this letter. If you fail to reimburse me I shall have no alternative but to consider legal action,

The vehicle is not in use and is ready for collection complete with all documentation at the above address. Please confirm your arrangements for collection.

Yours faithfully

Made a few amendments and commented in red within your draft.

You say the car has developed an electrical fault (has this been diagnosed or is it your guess?)
Do you think this electrical fault is the cause of the judder on starting when cold and when does the momentary loss of dash board display(?) occur

You need to give longer than 7 days for them to settle, and I personally would not threaten county court so strongly immediately.

[explorer121]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Good morning,
thank you for taking the time and trouble to amend my draft letter.
I have adjusted it in accordance with your advice and added to the momentary loss of power which Fiat have commented may be a software issue relating to the air bag. Only further expense and investigation with provide me with a correct diagnosis.
That aside the Fiat dealer has commented in writing ;
'With regards to the air bag warning light, we have attempted to carry out an ECU update for the air bags which was unsuccessful, we have suggested the fault could lay in the air bag ECU or in the wiring. Unfortunately we will not probe the wiring due to the risk of the air bags deploying accidently. To supply and fit an air bag ECU, the cost would be £753.05 inclusive of parts, labour, and VAT.
We have carried out diagnosis of the instrument cluster, at the time of test we were unable to find any fault with it.
We also carried out a full battery test which has come back with a positive result which means the battery is working to its correct capacity'.

The fact that the air bag light is on and won't reset is basis alone for rejection as it is a safety issue and an MOT failure.

I will email a copy of the amended letter on Monday to the dealer who delivered it and see where I go from there.

Thank you again.

[explorer121]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Good morning,

thought I'd try and get a bit of further advice. Having emailed and sent a rejection letter to the dealer I have now received a phone call saying, well I can't repeat most of it on here, suffice to say he is refusing to collect the car and suggests I go to h*** !
Could any one advise how I go about enforcing collection after the 14 day collection advice ? Your comments would be appreciated.

[des8]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Nice man!
After the expiry of 14 days (if there has not been a proper response) you send him a "Letter before Action" (LBA)
We can help you draft it.
This is the first stage of court action ( and should comply with certain preaction protocols (https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...action_conduct)

[explorer121]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Many thanks for your reply. I will bide my time, 14 days and then LBA draft.

[explorer121]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Good evening,
just an update as I have now received a letter from the dealer which is as follows,
'Thank you for your letter dated 16.1.16.
We are sorry that your purchase of DV****Y Fiat Punto from us has left you disappointed.
We are therefore willing to refund you the full net price of £3499 via BACS for the car should it be returned to ourselves in an undamaged condition.'

Should I reply to this or wait for the 14 day period to expire and issue a LBA letter ?

Your advice would be much appreciated.

[des8]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Refer your "friendly" dealer to the sections of the Consumer Rights 2015 below, and tell him the onus is on him to collect, or pay for delivery

Sec 20

(7)

From the time when the right (to reject) is exercised—

(a)

the trader has a duty to give the consumer a refund, subject to subsection (18), and

(b)

the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader or (if there is an agreement for the consumer to return rejected goods) to return them as agreed.

(8)

Whether or not the consumer has a duty to return the rejected goods, the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning them, other than any costs incurred by the consumer in returning the goods in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them.

[explorer121]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

Good morning,
thank you very much for your reply it was much appreciated.
I have drafted a letter below and would appreciate a second opinion.

'Ref: ******* Fiat Grande Punto

Thank you for your letter dated 18 instant.

I would refer you to section 20 of The Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Section 20 Right to reject.
(7) From the time when the right is exercised—
(a) the trader has a duty to give the consumer a refund, subject to
subsection (18), and
(b) the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by
the trader or (if there is an agreement for the consumer to return
rejected goods) to return them as agreed.
(8) Whether or not the consumer has a duty to return the rejected goods, the trader
must bear any reasonable costs of returning them, other than any costs
incurred by the consumer in returning the goods in person to the place where
the consumer took physical possession of them.
(9) The consumer’s entitlement to receive a refund works as follows.
(10) To the extent that the consumer paid money under the contract, the consumer
is entitled to receive back the same amount of money.
(11) To the extent that the consumer transferred anything else under the contract,
the consumer is entitled to receive back the same amount of what the consumer
transferred, unless subsection (12) applies.

The terms of my letter still stand and the 14 days expire on the 1^st February 2016.

Many thanks for your time.

[des8]

Re: Used car faulty after six days from purchase.

:okay: