Lease company siezed car

[Amethyst]

Re: Lease company siezed car

[MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] will I'm sure come and have a look at the terms ( car agreements really aren't my area ) ( [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] I do have the rest if there's any other bits you want, I think those bits are the relevant parts though)

( and bloody hell - I live in cloud cuckoo land I think, I had no idea leasing a car cost so much - I could have bought 7 !!! of my car for that - not that anyone would ever WANT 7 or even 1 of my car but it works - mostly )

[R0b]

Re: Lease company siezed car

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] could you please send the remainder just like to get the full picture

I'm going to have something to eat and then I shall respond in full.

[sandarra]

Re: Lease company siezed car

One other thing when i called VW today and was told the car would not be returned, they said they wan the 3800 asap. I said that wont be happening as she doesnt have that sort of money and will now need to now get a loan, so she can get a car to get to work, currently taking 2 hours to get to work 1 bus 2 trains, they suggested putting in a claim to her car insurance to say car was stolen, I havent called Admiral, but that doesnt seem right, although we are still paying car ins, guess need to cancel tomorrow to save some money

[Amethyst]

Re: Lease company siezed car

We agree to hire to you, and you agree to hire from us, the Vehicle described on page 1 of this Agreement for the duration of the hiring period shown on page 1 ('the Hiring Period') on the following Terms.
References to the Vehicle include all accessories and any new or replacement parts and/or additions in or on the Vehicle.
1 Making this Agreement
This Agreement is made, and you will start hiring the Vehicle, on the date of your signature on page 1 of this Agreement.
2 Payment
2.1 By the time this Agreement is made you must pay us advance rental (including the acceptance fee) and initial optional maintenance charges (if any) shown on page 1.
2.2 You must pay the rentals and optional maintenance charges (if any) shown on page 1 (including VAT as provided by Term 2.6 below) at the times stated. If you do not pay any rental or other payment by the time it is due, we can terminate this Agreement as stated in Term 7. In any month in which there is a payment holiday no rental or maintenance payment is payable by you (other than any amounts which are overdue and any maintenance charges , fees, charges, costs, expenses, compensation, additional payments and default interest that may be due).
2.3 If you do not pay any rental by the time it is due we will charge interest on the unpaid amount from the date it is due until the date it is paid. The rate of interest will be 5% per annum above HSBC Bank Plc Base Rate from time to time current.
2.4 We will charge you an administration fee of up to £25 (including VAT) for each unpaid or cancelled cheque, standing order or direct debit and for each reminder letter, notice or demand we make on you.
2.5 If you change the registration number of the Vehicle you must tell us at once. We may charge you an administration fee of up to £50 (including VAT) which you must pay immediately. The new registration number will belong to the Vehicle.
2.6 If the rate of VAT changes, the rentals and any other payments which are subject to VAT will change accordingly.
3 Substitute vehicle
At any time during the Hiring Period we may substitute the Vehicle with another vehicle of similar model, age and condition. The Terms of this Agreement shall then apply to the substitute vehicle. Any substitution of a vehicle will not affect your or our existing rights.
4 Restrictions relating to the Vehicle
4.1 You must keep the Vehicle in your possession and control and must not sell or otherwise dispose of it or attempt to do so. You must immediately pay any amount needed to remove any lien (being right at law) or other right another person may have over the Vehicle. You must not use the Vehicle as security for a loan or other obligation.
4.2 You must not allow the Vehicle to be taken outside the United Kingdom without our permission.
4.3 You must not use the Vehicle, or allow it to be used, for racing, trials or rallying or for the carrying of goods or passengers for hire or reward.
4.4 You must pay all licence fees, taxes, insurance premiums, fines and other payments associated with the Vehicle or arising out of or as a result of the seizure of the Vehicle by any statutory authorities as they fall due .
4.5 You must keep the Vehicle in good repair and condition. You will be responsible for any damage to or deterioration of the Vehicle (including repairs) except through fair wear and tear.
4.6 You must allow us to inspect the Vehicle at all reasonable times.
4.7 You must tell us at once if you change address. If you do not, you must pay us, when we ask, any expenses we incur in tracing you.
4.8 You must not make any addition or alteration to the Vehicle without our written consent.
5 Insuring the Vehicle
5.1 While this Agreement is in force you must keep the Vehicle comprehensively insured, for its full value. You must give us details of the policy if we ask you to and you must tell the insurer that we own the
Vehicle.
5.2 You agree that we may act as your agent to negotiate, enforce and agree to any insurance claim for loss of or damage to the Vehicle. All Money payable under the insurance policy is assigned by this Agreement by you to us. The benefit of any money paid out under the insurance, which is not attributable to the loss or damage to the Vehicle or monies due under this Agreement shall be notified and made available to you. We are authorized to give the insurer a receipt for the insurance money.
5.3 If the Vehicle is lost, damaged or destroyed so as to become an actual , arranged or constructive total loss you must pay us, when we ask, such sum as will equal the amount calculated in accordance with Term 8.2.
5.4 If we do not receive the money payable under your insurance policy on a total loss claim, you must pay us, when we ask, an amount equal to the value of the Vehicle immediately before its total loss, damage or destruction.
5.5 If the hiring of the Vehicle is terminated, your interest in the insurance relating to the Vehicle will pass to us and we will be entitled to the benefit of such insurance and any claims made in respect of the Vehicle.
6 Exclusions

6.1 The following exclusions do not apply if you are dealing as a consumer (you are a consumer if you are acting outside any trade, business or profession ) or if this is a consumer contract under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 nor do we exclude your statutory rights; As you have selected the Vehicle , we exclude any express or implied term or condition that the Vehicle complies with any description given of it or is of satisfactory quality.

6.2 Any dealer or manufacturer who is involved with this Agreement before or after it starts is not our agent. We are not responsible for anything they say, do or fail to do unless we have given them written authority to act as our agent or are made responsible by law.

6.3 We and our agents shall not be liable for any loss, cost or damage relating to your loss or limitation of use of the Vehicle, nor for any loss of profit or any prosecution arising from:

• the condition or any mechanical or other failure of the Vehicle ; or

• the supply of or failure to supply the products and services described in Term 9 (unless we have caused such failure directly by breaking a term of this Agreement)

provided that we do not exclude any liability for death or personal injury caused by our own negligence.

7 Our right to terminate

7.1 We may terminate the hiring by giving you written notice if any of the following happens:

7.1.1 you fail to pay any rental, maintenance charge or other payment under this Agreement by the time it is due;

7.1.2 you have given us any untrue statement or false information which we have relied on;

7.1.3 you take any steps to sell the Vehicle;

7.1.4 the Vehicle is seized or distained upon or made subject to any court order :-

7.1.5 you present, or have presented against you, a petition for bankruptcy or for an administration order or your partnership dissolves; or

7.1.6 you are a company and a petition to wind up the company is presented or you pass a resolution for voluntary winding up or a receiver is appointed over your assets; or

7.1.7 you call a meeting of, or enter into any arrangement with, your creditors to repay your debts; or

7.1.8 in Scotland, your estate is sequestrated or your apparent insolvency occurs or you grant a Trust Deed for your creditors;

7.1.9 you fail to comprehensively insure the Vehicle or keep the Vehicle comprehensively insured.

7.2 If we are entitled to or have terminated the hiring, then we may at any time by notice in writing terminate this Agreement.

7.3 If you do not pay any rental or maintenance charge by the time itis due, this will amount to your 'repudiation' of this Agreement (meaning that you no longer intend to be bound by it).

8 Your Liability

8.1 When the Hiring Period ends or we terminate the hiring (or accept your repudiation of this Agreement) you must return the Vehicle to us immediately, at such address as we may reasonably require, at your own expense together with everything supplied with the Vehicle (including the servicing book) and the registration document and any MOT certificates. If you do not return the Vehicle, we may repossess it and recover from you any expenses we incur.

8.2 If we terminate the hiring, or accept your repudiation of this Agreement, you must pay us:

• all unpaid rentals and any unpaid maintenance charges and other payments due (which shall include interest, where applicable) ; plus

• as compensation or agreed damages on our acceptance of your repudiation, or as a debt on our termination, the total amount of rentals payable during the Hiring Period (excluding VAT) less the amount of rentals paid or which have become due (excluding VAT) less also an amount (if any) equal to a rebate of rentals calculated at the rate of 4% per annum on the rentals (excluding VAT) which have not become due; plus

• all our expenses of recovering or trying to recover the Vehicle, repairing or storing it and tracing you (plus VAT); plus

• an administration charge of up to £100 (including VAT) where this is reasonably required to meet our processing costs.

8.3 If we terminate the hiring, or accept your repudiation of this Agreement, we will deduct from any sum you owe us (to reflect early settlement) an amount calculated by us to give credit for any difference in value of the Vehicle resulting from its return to us earlier than anticipated at the outset of this Agreement.

8.4 If we terminate the hiring or this Agreement, or accept your repudiation of this Agreement, any refunded road fund licence relating to the Vehicle will

[Amethyst]

Re: Lease company siezed car

9 Maintenance

9.1 If you keep your side of this Agreement, until the Hiring Period ends or we terminate the hiring we will provide:-

9.1.1 road fund licence(s) for the Vehicle (provided that if the cost of the road fund licence goes up after the Agreement is made, you will pay us the amount of the increase when we ask); and

9.1.2 the Volkswagen recovery scheme or another vehicle recovery scheme.

9.2 If this Agreement is stated to include maintenance, we will pay for those of the items listed below which are specified as the options to apply:

Service

All works of service arising from proper use of the Vehicle and fair wear and tear excluding maintenance, tyres, accident damage and negligence (for example excluding replacement of windscreens, headlight glass and broken aerials and repair of kerbing damage).

Maintenance

All works of maintenance arising from proper use of the Vehicle and fair wear and tear excluding tyres, accident damage and negligence (for example excluding replacement of windscreens, headlight glass and broken aerials and repair of kerbing damage).

Replacement Tyres

Replacement tyres needed due to fair wear and tear only. (You must pay for replacement tyres where damage is due to other causes such as accident, negligence, kerbing or punctures).

Replacement vehicle (mechanical defect only)

A replacement vehicle of similar type if the Vehicle is unfit for use due to mechanical defect but not due to accident damage. The replacement vehicle will be provided 48 hours after you tell us that the Vehicle is unfit until the Vehicle is again fit for use.

Replacement vehicle (accident damage only)

A replacement vehicle of similar type if the Vehicle is unfit for use due to accident damage provided that you provide a copy of your insurance claim if we ask. The replacement vehicle will be provided 48 hours after you tell us that the Vehicle is unfit for a maximum of 28 days during the Hiring Period.

9.3 We will not be responsible for any of the following costs:

9.3.1 the cost of any accident repair or repairs to the body work of the Vehicle unless it is covered by the manufacturer’s paint and bodywork warranties

9.3.2 the cost of replacing tyres damaged by you in a road accident or otherwise

9.3.3 costs you incur with anybody who is not an authorised Volkswagen dealer (unless we otherwise authorise them)

9.3.4 costs arising from frost or pollution damage or from your misuse or abuse of the Vehicle.

9.3.5 costs arising from you using fuel of the incorrect specification for the Vehicle or contaminated fuel

9.3.6 any costs arising from the use of the Vehicle outside the United Kingdom

9.3.7 any costs directly or indirectly caused by your failure to have the Vehicle serviced at the manufacturer’s

recommended fixed intervals or repaired when necessary

9.3.8 any transportation costs, booking fees or other costs arising from MOT tests (except the test fee itself).

9.4 You agree to:

9.4.1 make sure that the Vehicle is serviced and maintained strictly in line with the manufacturer’s recommendations and that scheduled servicing and necessary maintenance is carried out only by authorised Volkswagen dealers

9.4.2 follow the procedures set down by us for the use of any Drivecard we issue

9.4.3 make sure that any replacement vehicle provided is insured in accordance with Term 5

9.4.4 pay for all fuel, oil, grease, water, anti-freeze and other lubricants required between regular servicing and ensure that such items are kept at a satisfactory level

9.4.5 make sure that all accident damage repairs are carried out at paint and bodywork shops authorised by us

9.4.6 indemnify us against the consequences of anything you do which invalidates the manufacturer’s warranties on the Vehicle.

9.5 You agree to return the Vehicle to us at the end of the Hiring Period in good repair and condition except for fair wear and tear (as defined in the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association Fair Wear and Tear Guide, which we will send to you if you ask us.)

9.6 If you are in breach of Term 9.5 above, we may have such work carried out as is reasonably necessary to restore the Vehicle to a state of good repair and condition and you shall indemnify us against and pay us when we ask all costs and expenses we have incurred or will incur in respect of that work. If you dispute either whether you are in breach of Term 9.5 or the cost of restoring the Vehicle, we will refer the matter to the Automobile Association or the Royal Automobile Club for an assessment and you and we agree to abide by such assessment and to give effect to its recommendations.

10 Mileage

10.1 You must make sure that the Vehicle does not cover more than:

10.1.1 the Maximum Annual Mileage in each succeeding period of 12 months starting from the making of this Agreement; and/or

10.1.2 the Maximum Total Mileage

10.2 When we ask, you must pay us the Excess Mileage Charge shown on page 1 (plus VAT) for each mile covered by the Vehicle in excess of the Maximum Annual Mileage or the Maximum Total Mileage.

10.3 If you have paid Excess Mileage Charges in relation to the Maximum Annual Mileage we will deduct this amount from any Excess Mileage Charge we ask you to pay in relation to the Maximum Total Mileage.

10.4 If the mileometer stops working you must have it repaired. You must tell us the date when it stopped working, the recorded mileage at that date and the date when it was repaired. We will calculate an average mileage for the period during which the mileometer was not working based upon the recorded mileage.

10.5 If this Agreement terminates early, we will reduce the Maximum Total Mileage in the proportion which the actual period of hire bears to the period of hire originally agreed. Any Excess Mileage

Charge will be calculated using the reduced Maximum Total Mileage.

10.6 Where the Vehicle is a used vehicle, we will take into account the given mileometer reading at the start of this Agreement in assessing any Excess Mileage Charges payable.

10.7 We will add to the mileage of the Vehicle the mileage covered by any substitute or replacement vehicle while in your possession and control.

11 Late Return of the Vehicle

If you do not return the Vehicle promptly at the end of the Hiring Period or on termination of the hiring, you will pay us compensation when we ask. You agree that the amount of such compensation (being a genuine pre-estimate of the damage we will suffer as a result of such late return) will be a sum equal to one thirtieth of the rental amount shown on page 1 for each day after the date on which you should have returned the Vehicle up to and including the date on which you actually return the Vehicle or we recover it.

12 Relaxing the terms of this Agreement

If we do not enforce, or we delay in enforcing, our rights under this Agreement (for example, our right to terminate it), this does not mean we have given up those rights and we may enforce them at a later date.

13 If there is more than one hirer

If two or more people are named as the hirer, these Terms apply to each of you jointly and individually. We may take action against any one, or all, of you.

14 Transferring this Agreement

You must not transfer this Agreement, or any rights or responsibilities under it, to any other person.

15 Volkswagen Payment Protection

If you take out Volkswagen Payment Protection with this Agreement, the following Terms also apply:

15.1 While this Agreement is in force, to maintain cover you must pay us the monthly premium at the same time as the monthly repayment.

15.2 The Volkswagen Payment Protection is a monthly renewable policy.

15.3 We will collect the monthly premiums as agent for the insurer.

15.4 We can give the insurer any information about you which the insurer asks for.

15.5 If any insurance money becomes due in respect of the repayments under this Agreement we can receive this from the insurer on your behalf.

15.6 If the hiring or this Agreement terminates, Volkswagen Payment

Protection will also terminate.

15.7 The dealer who supplies the Vehicle to you will give you a Policy Summary setting out details of Volkswagen Payment Protection before this Agreement is made. The insurer will send you a document containing all the Terms of Volkswagen Payment

Protection after this Agreement is made.

16 Commission

We may pay commission or other remuneration to a supplying dealer or

[R0b]

Re: Lease company siezed car

thanks @Amethyst, didn't realise you were going to copy and paste all of that!

@sandarra So, from what I have read, the main focus has to be on clause 7 of the agreement. It really is quite difficult to give you a definitive answer on this because the only defence I can see you making is that clause 7.1.4 has been misconstrued or it is at least an unfair contract term. If it is indeed an unfair contract term, then effectively VW have wrongfully terminated the agreement and you could seek damages as a result of this. There is also the possibility that there has been an unfair relationship between VW and yourself which, if a court were to agree, would enable you to seek compensation.

So there are I guess 3 arguments: (1) Clause 7.1.4 was not intended to cover seizure as a result of theft (2) If it was intended, then the term is unfair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts (UTCCR) (3) There is an unfair relationship in accordance with s.140 Consumer Credit Act 1974

(1) From my point of view, when you read clause 7.1.4, it does not seem to appear that it would cover instances where the vehicle has been seized as a result of theft. Therefore you could potentially argue that in construing clause 7 as a whole 7.1.4 was intended to mean that if the vehicle was seized due to your daughter's act or omissions, then VW can terminate the agreement on written notice. Why might you ask? because every other sub-clause in clause 7 refers to "You" being your daughter and therefore it would be reasonable to state that was the intention of the wording. Of course VW lawyers may have intentionally left clause 7.1.4 broad enough to cover anything including where the vehicle is seized through no fault of your own or they may have done this by accident.

(2) Even if (1) is not agreed with, then your second argument is that the term itself is unfair. A contract term is unfair if it satisfies what is known as the "fairness test". Where a contract term has not been individually negotiated, creates a significant imbalance on the parties' rights and obligations which is detriment to the consumer then it may be unfair. When a court decides if a contract term is unfair, it will usually take the following into account:

- The nature of the goods
- All of the circumstances surrounding the contract at the time of entering into it
- All other terms of the contract

A key point about UTCCR is that where there is doubt about the interpretation of a contract term, the interpretation will favour the consumer.

The main thrust of this argument is that if the term is to be interpreted as covering any seizure of the vehicle regardless of who's at fault, then the term is substantially unfair and may also be construed as an unfair penalty clause. The mere fact of the matter is that whilst it is possible to minimise issues of theft of a vehicle, it is practically impossible to prevent it. Any person could come along, break into the vehicle or use the key and drive off and therefore you cannot expect your daughter to guarantee that the vehicle will not be driven by someone else without consent.

Granted, in this case the vehicle was driven by the ex boyfriend however as I previously said, it is reasonable to put leave a spare key in the home that you are living in. It doesn't matter that you go between homes the fact is that a good amount of time is spent living there. I think the argument about the key left in the drawer is a poor one. The ex boyfriend has admitted theft of the vehicle or TWOC or whatever liability, I think it would be substantially unfair to penalise your daughter where they did not give consent to driving the vehicle let alone being aware that the vehicle was being driven by another person, regardless of whether it was the ex boyfriend or another person.

The term therefore I would feel is unfair, and potentially a penalty clause to enable VW to accelerate the total amount under the agreement regardless of who is at fault.

(3) Finally, your last argument is that there is an unfair relationship between VW and you daughter. The unfair relationship test is where the court will look not only at the terms of the agreement but also the behaviour of the creditor and in particular, the way in which the creditor has sought to enforce its rights. Unlike the other to points above, the burden of proof is on the creditor to show that the relationship was not unfair. If the court finds that the relationship is unfair, then the court can make various orders including, repayment of monies to back to your daughter, discharge any obligations or vary the agreement.

I am making a presumption here and correct me if I am wrong however, it seems to me that VW have been informed that the vehicle was seized by the police. Without hesitation they terminated the agreement and made no enquiries as to how or why the vehicle came to be seized by the police. Your daughter did not have the option to pay for the vehicle to be released which she was willing to do and at the very least, your daughter was not aware that the vehicle had been taken and presumed it was parked behind where she works. Had VW made enquiries and found out that it was taken without consent and that your daughter was willing to pay for the vehicle's release, then it would have been unlikely that they would have terminated the agreement.

Again, it would be up to VW to argue that the actions they took were not unfair in any way.

Overall, the question now is what your daughter wants to do. You can either fight this through the court by making a claim or counter claim if VW attempt to recover the outstanding balance or your daughter can just pay the remaining balance left. Be aware that once you have made payment then it will be extremely difficult to recover the sums that your daughter has paid to VW.

The above arguments are purely my opinion and there is no doubt other arguments to counter the ones above. As I said at the beginning, it is difficult to say for certain that the court will agree but there does seem to be a bit of unreasonableness by VW. If the the claim was successful, then the court is likely to deem that the agreement has been repudiated by VW i.e. a fundamental breach of the contract which enables your daughter to claim compensation not only under the contract but possibly other compensation for loss of use of the vehicle and alternative means of travel as well as inconvenience.


p.s. I'm sure others could contribute their views on this also.

[sandarra]

Re: Lease company siezed car

thanks @Amethyst, didn't realise you were going to copy and paste all of that!

@sandarra So, from what I have read, the main focus has to be on clause 7 of the agreement. It really is quite difficult to give you a definitive answer on this because the only defence I can see you making is that clause 7.1.4 has been misconstrued or it is at least an unfair contract term. If it is indeed an unfair contract term, then effectively VW have wrongfully terminated the agreement and you could seek damages as a result of this. There is also the possibility that there has been an unfair relationship between VW and yourself which, if a court were to agree, would enable you to seek compensation.

So there are I guess 3 arguments: (1) Clause 7.1.4 was not intended to cover seizure as a result of theft (2) If it was intended, then the term is unfair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts (UTCCR) (3) There is an unfair relationship in accordance with s.140 CCA

(1) From my point of view, when you read clause 7.1.4, it does not seem to appear that it would cover instances where the vehicle has been seized as a result of theft. Therefore you could potentially argue that in construing clause 7 as a whole 7.1.4 was intended to mean that if the vehicle was seized due to the hirer's act or omissions, then VW can terminate the agreement on written notice. Why might you ask? because every other sub-clause in clause 7 refers to "You" being the hirer and therefore it would be reasonable to state that was the intention of the wording. Of course VW lawyers may have intentionally left clause 7.1.4 broad enough to cover anything including where the vehicle is seized through no fault of your own or they may have done this by accident.

(2) Even if (1) is not agreed with, then your second argument is that the term itself is unfair. A contract term is unfair if it satisfies what is known as the "fairness test". Where a contract term has not been individually negotiated, creates a significant imbalance on the parties' rights and obligations which is detriment to the consumer then it may be unfair. When a court decides if a contract term is unfair, it will usually take the following into account:

- The nature of the goods
- All of the circumstances surrounding the contract at the time of entering into it
- All other terms of the contract

A key point about UTCCR is that where there is doubt about the interpretation of a contract term, the interpretation will favour the consumer.

The main thrust of this argument is that if the term is to be interpreted as covering any seizure of the vehicle regardless of who's at fault, then the term is substantially unfair and may also be construed as an unfair penalty clause. The mere fact of the matter is that whilst it is possible to minimise issues of theft of a vehicle, it is practically impossible to prevent it. Any person could come along, break into the vehicle or use the key and drive off and therefore you cannot expect a hirer to guarantee that the vehicle will not be driven by someone else without consent.

Granted, in this case the vehicle was driven by the ex boyfriend however as I previously said, it is reasonable to put leave a spare key in the home that you are living in. It doesn't matter that you go between homes the fact is that a good amount of time is spent living there. I think the argument about the key left in the drawer is a poor one. The ex boyfriend has admitted theft of the vehicle or TWOC or whatever liability, I think it would be substantially unfair to penalise your daughter where they did not give consent to driving the vehicle let alone being aware that the vehicle was being driven by another person, regardless of whether it was the ex boyfriend or another person.

The term therefore I would feel is unfair, and potentially a penalty clause to enable VW to accelerate the total amount under the agreement regardless of who is at fault.

(3) Finally, your last argument is that there is an unfair relationship between VW and you daughter. The unfair relationship test is where the court will look not only at the terms of the agreement but also the behaviour of the creditor and in particular, the way in which the creditor has sought to enforce its rights. Unlike the other to points above, the burden of proof is on the creditor to show that the relationship was not unfair. If the court finds that the relationship is unfair, then the court can make various orders including, repayment of monies to back to your daughter, discharge any obligations or vary the agreement.

I am making a presumption here and correct me if I am wrong however, it seems to me that VW have been informed that the vehicle was seized by the police. Without hesitation they terminated the agreement and made no enquiries as to how or why the vehicle came to be seized by the police. Your daughter did not have the option to pay for the vehicle to be released which she was willing to do and at the very least, your daughter was not aware that the vehicle had been taken and presumed it was parked behind where she works. Had VW made enquiries and found out that it was taken without consent and that your daughter was willing to pay for the vehicle's release, then it would have been unlikely that they would have terminated the agreement.

Again, it would be up to VW to argue that the actions they took were not unfair in any way.

Overall, the question now is what your daughter wants to do. You can either fight this through the court by making a claim or counter claim if VW attempt to recover the outstanding balance or your daughter can just pay the remaining balance left. Be aware that once you have made payment then it will be extremely difficult to recover the sums that your daughter has paid to VW.

The above arguments are purely my opinion and there is no doubt other arguments to counter the ones above. As I said at the beginning, it is difficult to say for certain that the court will agree but there does seem to be a bit of unreasonableness by VW. If the the claim was successful, then the court is likely to deem that the agreement has been repudiated by VW i.e. a fundamental breach of the contract which enables your daughter to claim compensation not only under the contract but possibly other compensation for loss of use of the vehicle and alternative means of travel as well as inconvenience.

Gosh, that is a lot to digest, you have been extremley thorough, thank you. Your assumption is correct the first letter was dated 23 Dec the date the car was seized, with the Chrismas holidays it arrived almost a week later, we assumed it was a standard letter triggered by the seizure and once we explained the situation will be resolved. I have found the CEO's email address I am going to email him and cut and paste several of your valid points. I can't thank you enough for your efforts. I will continue to keep you informed . Thank you Sandra

[des8]

Re: Lease company siezed car

Two minor observations/questions?
i) if police recover a vehicle that was taken without the owner's consent (not theft!), is that classed as "seizure"?
ii) the suggestion that the insurers will entertain a "theft" claim are frankly ridiculous.
It was a TWOC, and I'm sure the intention was to return the vehicle. Also the vehicle suffered no damage.

[des8]

Re: Lease company siezed car

surrey police seem to differentiate between recovery and seizure

Vehicle seizures and
recoveries

Stolen vehicle information

We’ll make every effort to tell you that your vehicle has been found so that you can recover it yourself. If we are unable to contact you at that time and we think your vehicle is at risk of being stolen again or damaged, or if it’s causing an obstruction or hazard, we will arrange for it to be recovered to a secure location and tell you as soon as possible of its whereabouts so you can collect it. The cost of removal is your responsibility but usually covered by insurance. Whilst the vehicle is at the secure premises we’ll take the opportunity to forensically examine it.
If the vehicle is found outside Surrey, most other police forces will apply similar principles. To find out more, download the G58 document at the bottom of this page.
Seized vehicle information

The police have various powers to seize vehicles under anti-social behaviour legislation.
Section 59
If you have driven your vehicle in an anti-social manner which has caused or was likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance, or was being driven in a careless or inconsiderate manner and it has been seized by the police under Section 59 powers, download the S59 seized vehicle information document at the bottom of this page.
Section 165
If you have driven your vehicle without insurance and/or driving licence or failed to stop when required by police and there is a suspicion that the vehicle is uninsured and it has been seized by the police under Section 165A of the Road Traffic Act 1988, refer to the information in the S165 seized vehicle information document at the bottom of this page.
View our S165 seized vehicle information policy.

Vehicle recovery information

If the vehicle has been recovered through the Surrey Police Vehicle Recovery Scheme the charges are statutory (as laid down in the Removal, Storage and Disposal of Vehicles – Prescribed Sums and Charges) Regulations 2008 and subsequent amendments. Download the vehicle recovery charges document below for more information.

[R0b]

Re: Lease company siezed car

Two minor observations/questions?
i) if police recover a vehicle that was taken without the owner's consent (not theft!), is that classed as "seizure"?
ii) the suggestion that the insurers will entertain a "theft" claim are frankly ridiculous.
It was a TWOC, and I'm sure the intention was to return the vehicle. Also the vehicle suffered no damage.

Referring to your latest post as well, maybe because it is late I'm not sure I follow the difference between seizure and recovery from that paragraph. However, as in the original post, the car was left at a petrol station next to the air and water machine. Do the police have a right to seize a vehicle which may be on private land?

About your second post, I'm afraid I'm not following, we haven't been given information as to the offence admitted hence why I put theft/TWOC. There's no reference to insurers either so I don't know the relevance of that.

@sandarra, good luck sending an email to the CEO, I'm sure he has his hands full with the emissions scandal to worry about a low value breach of contract but you never know


EDIT: @des8, ok I understand what you mean, Durham police website has a better meaning of recovery and seizure. Potentially yes that could be another argument here, that the vehicle was recovered and not seized. However, if the police had suspicion that the vehicle was driven without insurance then it could fall under section 165.

I guess it would depend on whether the police had stated it was seized under section 165 or just recovered as an abandoned vehicle.

[sandarra]

Re: Lease company siezed car

Many thank for all your comments and advice.

[des8]

Re: Lease company siezed car

About your second post, I'm afraid I'm not following, we haven't been given information as to the offence admitted hence why I put theft/TWOC. There's no reference to insurers either so I don't know the relevance of that.

Post 18 VW advised making a claim under theft section

[wales01man]

Re: Lease company siezed car

Why would the Police Recover a vehicle from private land ? Must be a seizure section 165 maybe .
As for VW actions just does not seem legal more like an interpretation of the contract different to what a normal person would expect.
Has the OPs daughter seen a Solicitor who may read something in the contract the rest of LB cannot see.

[R0b]

Re: Lease company siezed car

I don't know, it was just something I thought of at the time. The only way to find out is for the OP to call the police and find out whether the car was actually seized under s.165 or whether it was recovered as an abandoned vehicle. If she can get that in writing, and the vehicle was recovered then I'd be pretty confident that VW have terminated the agreement wrongfully.

[des8]

Re: Lease company siezed car

All a bit conjectural at the mo' but it does seem from 1st posts that vehicle was abandoned on garage forecourt and police took custody of it prior to speaking to driver.
So they could not have known if driver was licensed or insured.