Little person BIG company

[jaguarsuk]

I have unsubscribed from this thread due to pointless posting of the OP when they have clearly been told multiple times what is required to assess their position.

[disaster]

Is there NO WAY to deal with a judge that lies?
Surely if lied to I am able to submit the PoC and a witness statement?
If not then the rest is fruitless?

[echat11]

You've got the 'cart before the horse', you need to deal with the case (concentrate on case), then see what you can do regards your dissatisfaction with 'Judge' etc.

[R0b]

If you don't like the decision made against you then we have an appeals process and you may do that within 21 days from the date of the judgment (which has now lapsed). You may be able to file out of time if the judge didn't say you have the right to make an application to appeal and you've only just become aware of that right, but ultimately that is the process regardless of whether you think the judge, the defendant, the witness or whoever was on that call was lying you still need to follow the appeals process for a more senior judge to consider.

There is a fee of £129 for your appeal application but also you may be required to pay for the transcript of the judgment if there was anything said or done in the hearing that you wish to rely on as evidence to your appeal.

It sounds like in your initial post you have failed to follow the procedural rules and that could impact on whether any appeal you make is successful or not. Just one final point, your posts are coming across as very hot-headed and you seem to be focused on one particular point and the impression you are giving isn't a good look. If you choose to make an application to appeal, you need to stay focused on the material points and certainly do not write anything with words all capital letters in between sentences like you are doing now - it will not go down well with a judge reading the application.

The rules on appealing are below.

PART 52 - APPEALS - Civil Procedure Rules (justice.gov.uk)

[disaster]

I am a litigant in person, with disabilities with 5 cases all of which I did not want.

Trying to find help has been a nightmare and help has been contradictory.
I was told to be concise in my witness statement, then the judge said because I had been it can be viewed as lies.

I am VERY AFRID of AGAIN not being able to feed and house my children.

This case I expected to be over and done with last year, it was not so I am now juggling five cases.

I write to the court, I am ignored, and they loose cases and they book hearings for dates I cannot do.
I write, I phone, I am ignored.

I do not believe that the barristers I am up against are treated in such a way and its difficult and overwhelming and I am also with my health conditions afraid that it will kill me and again my children with have nothing and no one.

This case I did not resubmit a PoC in time as no help to do so.
I did not amend my witness statement as to do so I had been advised by the judge I would be seen as lying.
As a result I just wrote a letter saying that I am unable to resubmit etc as I have been informed by Judge X that I will be seen as a liar.

So from what I understand I just need to go to the hearing next week, see how it goes.
If it all goes badly THEN I can complain about the January hearing. It will be out of date however I can attempt an appeal AFTER the hearing (paperwork and fees, I take that for granted now :-) )

I already have a transcript of the hearing, yes it did cost but I felt I needed that as proof regardless as to me it felt wrong, and according to a message here it was wrong.
My other question was, as the barrister would know the judge was lying, was she allowed to just accept it as great in my favour or was there a process she should have followed. Guessing the former.

Thank you
When risking housing and feeding your children, and risking my own life is real, one does tend to get a little upset and very very scared.

[echat11]

You can get help from CAB / Law Works, as you say 'you can't do it alone'.

https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals

[disaster]

Tried the CAB no help
Tried law works, no help
Tried other places ... always no help, exempt, no replies, never get back to me
Tried my insurance, not covered
Tried disability groups, no one covers my disabilities etc fall though gaps ...
Support though the court only signposts
I have written to the courts and rang many times highlight disabilities, highlighting they are supposed to accommodate
Wrote a timetable they have given me, showing how unreasonable and highlighting that letters arrive AFTER deadline, ignored.

I even found a site that would do PoC for you (a 'small' charge) however they were not taking on new cases... when a legal person writes out your PoC then the other side/judge says they are wrong and the legal help is no longer there to help me.... lost

so, so far ... on my own :-(

I have re rang support though the courts and will re go though the list ringing and emailing.

It does NOT need to be this difficult.

I know some people want everything done for them, I just need support and guidance.
I had no idea with directions, once I had a set, I could use and adapt... but its not there for each stage, and an EASY flow chart or other.

Another problem someone said, complete form X, pay fee Y ...
I put the extra info together, had a couple of questions, which they answered eg hearing or no hearing, so did all that sorted :-)

[R0b]

I am having difficulty in understanding your case and struggling to pick out what it is you need from us because your posts are not very cohesive and are going off on a ramble. I agree that litigants in person have a disadvantage in the legal system and sometimes things are not fair even if they are legally and procedurally correct, but if you want us to give you any help then you need to stop going off on a rant and give us the necessary information.

You seem to be drip feeding information and none of us are going to want to help if we have to keep asking for the same thing. So why don't we start again and you tell us in clear sentences what it is you actually need help with - if it helps, bullet list the issues and what the court has/hasn't asked for and what stage you are at is also useful to know.

[disaster]

Does this help, been though it twice and edited it and tried not to duplicate ...


2017 Went on holiday (single parent, benefits lots of scarifies, however during my marriage we went not allowed holidays so it was important for me children had a chance of the experience, different country, language, chance to learn to swim etc.)

It was terrible. Lots of reasons. It was not the 'family or wellbeing', or other as advertised.
I complained whist I was there and obtained proof of complaint of discrimination towards us.

Once home complained, recorded delivery letters. Ignored.
(I obtained the help of an ex magistrate.)
They suggested write again, and again, so I did eventually a reply from the company of we did nothing wrong etc.

Pre court letters, repeat, we did nothing wrong.

Ex magistrate said I had a good case to take forward. (That is where their help ended).

2020 sent off paperwork.
Defence (written by a case worker who was never there).
Listed for trial, needed to have trial bundle in by September. Then a letter that the case bundle needed to be a MONTH early. Not easy but I did it and to me, it cost a small fortune to create, copy and post.

Hearing - barrister, I have done the Particulars of Claim incorrectly.
If someone had told me this I would have corrected it without a hearing!
Barrister obsessed with having fees paid.

Judge said for me to go thought their complaints procedure again, and if that does not work, file a new PoC by November 2021.

I asked the judge if they did not respond again what would be the consequences for them? Ignored

I wrote to the company, again, ignored.

Edited a PoC from one given ALSO as I had been refused payment by my card due to disabilities against Equality act too, as we were supposed to be 'starting from the beginning'.

Hearing Jan 2021

As the equality act was over the 6 months thrown out. There was a misunderstanding about 'beginning' and that was the fault of a 'sister' company.

Apparently my PoC STILL isn't right.

The judge said that

- she would allow it to be amended HOWEVER if I did AND I edited my witness statement then I would be considered a liar as I was 'making them fit to prove my case'.

- IF my new PoC is correct and I have a lenient judge next time I MAY receive about £200 (claim £3,500).

- I am not a reasonable person, it was a £2000 holiday for 3 people. The company for that money, could give me what they wanted and I should have been grateful. I had not been reasonable to complain or bring court action.

- if it had been a 5 star hotel in barbados I would have a claim.
(I do not see how a person more affluent can have a case however not me purely due to outlay, surely it should be evidence.)

- quoting in my witness statement from Tripadvisor was not evidence, I needed to have provided screen shots with dates for it to be acceptable in the witness statement.

- I was a 'moaning minny' and next she would be expecting me to complain the sun had shone.


For the deadline Feb 2021
1) no access to help for a new PoC
2) not wishing to be considered a liar as I'm not

I wrote quoting the judge that if I had sent anything different I would be seen as a liar, which I did not see as in my best interests.
I did however send in the screen shots mentioned or the tripadvisor quotes.

From this forum (thank you) I now understand that

1. the judge was not truthful saying that an edited PoC and witness statement would incriminate me as a liar
2. I need to go to the hearing next week and if it goes badly THEN appeal

The barrister all though the last hearing again went on about costs.

Outside the court the barrister threatened that loosing I would be paying thousands, and thousands, and thousands in costs.

I wrote to the company ask what the costs were - ignored.

I confess I went into this on the understanding that if I lost that both side paid their own fees as it was small claims. Quite a shock.

It has cost me with paperwork, fees, travel etc £1000 or so. I have been prevented from being their for my children etc which is very upsetting and the stress!

Like most I CANNOT afford to loose and fees.

All I wanted was for a holiday, good memories for my children, as due to health problems I am on borrowed time.

I know it was winnable, with compensation, just not by me, against a barrister, a lone litigant in person, with disabilities,

My aim, I have accepted the loss of the money for a holiday and the cost of the court case, win at least £1 so I do not have to pay costs.

Thank you for your patience and understanding, honestly, in such difficult times, it means a lot.

[R0b]

I think it would help to actually see your POC that has been drafted with your personal info redacted. Another member of the forum did request this but you don't appear to have responded. Are you able to do this?

You are right that the small claims track limits costs but the court can deviate from that starting position if your conduct is considered unreasonable. It sounds like the defendant company might be trying to say you bringing this claim was hopeless in addition to any non-compliance with the rules around drafting the POC.

As I said before, if the judge said in the hearing that if you changed your POC or witness statement (I'm really not sure whether that is supposed to mean if you change them to be compliant with the rules or if you re-draft your POC entirely to include new material) then you would be deemed a liar and, if you followed that position then you may have a right to appeal on that basis. Only you can know what the judge said exactly and I am sure any senior judge hearing the appeal will want to see a transcript of the hearing to read what exactly the judge said in what context. That does depend on whether you would want to go down that route.

In summary, going to court is a formal process and there are rules to follow that everyone needs to comply with. If you issue a claim without knowing the rules or researching them, then you ultimately put yourself at risk of unwanted costs. The small claims track helps to reduce the administrative burden by excluding certain rules but you still ought to comply with the basics and it's not an excuse to say you didn't know because the easy answer to that is don't issue a claim until you do know how to do it.

[disaster]

Well I started on the guidance of an ex magistrate. They had been extremely helpful and supportive, so I never expected to be in this position.
I cant imagine it is intentional on their behalf.

Unfortunately for me my disabilities limit information I can absorb and comprehend, it all becomes a blurry muddle.
It is just what I must endure and so therefore must do my best.

.... a reprieve.

The hearing has been postponed. I wrote to the court, again, as suggested.
I sent a letter to the manager, again. I listed all the cases and deadlines, again, and stated clearly that this time there was no possibly way for me to meet them.
This time I colour coded each case number.
I duplicated the letter for EACH case and colour coded them and asked for each one to be added to each file, listing all the other cases etc ...

I had asked months ago for an Equity assessor - ignored.
For the hearing this week, it has been postponed as they look for one.

(Colour coding makes THAT much difference? Or just luck?)

...

So.... are there other PoC templates that I can use, and amend correctly for this case? (resubmit with a d244 or something)
Holiday not as advertised, it was to be a family holiday and for wellbeing. It was not.
Facilities not available, we were not told until a week or so before and could do nothing without loosing ALL the money.
The main issues were over crowding. Three hotels in one. An easy to prove example, I hoped, was the beach not as shown, however the judge said of the sand ... 'it may have washed away and would return another day. Did you expect the company to take a photo of it every day?'
- I was speechless with this and the other prementioned comments (yes I have the transcript.)
No space to move around, one staff for drinks to 100's of guests (all backed up with trip advisor reviews.)

My children and I were singled out told to leave a section of the dining room due to my sons age (we were told he was too young, 10), I also believe because we spoke English, I cant imagine they would have been able to speak sweedish for the same conversation.
(French, german, scandanavain mothers AND fathers with YOUNGER children were not asked to leave, a Sikh British family WITH A BABY were not asked to leave for their children being too young.)
I obtained it in writing that we were told my son needed to be 12. On the trip advisor the manager clearly states 10.
(Even with this proof the witness statement is that I never complained whilst there as the reps did not complete other paperwork, I had no idea I needed them to do and check that they had done it.)
The judge said that this was not discrimination and I needed it specifically in the PoC.

The defenses barrister has been running it all, guiding the judges and laughing at how I would have liked to have taken part in the yoga for a wellbeing family holiday.

I wrote to ask the charges to date however, no response.

Guidance appreciated, thank you.

[R0b]

I'm afraid I can't help you until we see what your POC looks like, it has been requested several times now but you seem to be ignoring that point and going on a bit of a rant on something else.

Unfortunately, I too am not going to engage any further until you are able to provide this for us to review as it would be inappropriate to give any guidance based on speculation.

[islandgirl]

Well I started on the guidance of an ex magistrate.
Whilst a magistrate may be more at home with legal terms etc than others we do not deal with civil cases, only criminal, family or youth.
You are also bringing claims against a nursery(?) for not allowing your child to enter without a mask at the same time as these claims. Were any of the issues on holiday mask related?