help please I dont know where to go for advice

[Guest]

This is the situation house purchased with partner 2005 joint tenants for 52000.00 mortgage was for 26000.00 as I paid deposit of 26000.00 over the years we remortgaged for home improvements so was 50000.00. I then had to remortgage again as he was gamberling 30k. We then split up as I could not cope I couldn't buy him out as did not earn enough and I ended up in a debt management plan, the mortgage interest only as he refused to pay anything from 2009 and the house went up for sale. It did not sell he then was a guarantor for his girlfriends loan which was not paid and a CCJ was taken out 2015 and they put a 5000.00 charge against the property.
He then died in 2016 so mortgage passed over to me I'm now wanting to sell the property so was advised to view the title deed as he said he was going to pay the CCJ. He is still listed on the deed and the charge is still there. The land registry told me to send in death certificate to get him removed. I asked his mother for this and wont give me the death certificate and did not inform land registry which I'm trying to do now and she is now saying she is entitled to half the house. Im at my wits end I cant sleep I just dont know what to do any advice please?

[efpom]

https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-...ge-certificate

[Feelikeafool]

Thank you I have now done that we made wills in 2005 and am also trying to get a copy of that

[des8]

If you were joint tenants when he died you are now sole owner of the property as it would pass to you under the right of survivorship.

When LR have the death certificate they will change the register.

[efpom]

I do suggest that you check the Land Registry title entry to make certain that you and the deceased were indeed 'joint tenants.

If that is so, as des8 correctly says, you became the sole owner on the death of the other 'joint tenant'.

To correct the land registry to show that you are the sole owner, you need to submit a DJP form attaching an official copy of the death certificate, the form can be downloaded from https://www.gov.uk/government/public...proprietor-djp

If I was in your shoes, I would not be mentioning any of this to the deceased's mother.

I am not certain what happens to the charge on the property, but my instinct is that as the charge was put on to secure payment of a CCJ against him (only), the charge extinguishes on his death. The debt does not extinguish and I assume the creditor can pursue his estate for payment. I emphasise that I am not certain of this paragraph!

[Feelikeafool]

If you were joint tenants when he died you are now sole owner of the property as it would pass to you under the right of survivorship.

When LR have the death certificate they will change the register.

How would I know if we were still joint tennants? The property register shows
Title absolute
1 (10/11/2005) proprietor his name and my name of address

2 (20/04/2000) The price stated to have been paid on 24 march 2002 was xxx

3 (10/11/2005) The transfer of the proprietor contains a covenant to observe and perform the covenants referred to in the charging register and indemnity in respect thereof.

4 20/08/2015 restriction no disposition of the registered estate other than the disposition by the proprietor of any registered charge registered before the entry of this restriction , is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for the registration or their conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to xxx, being the person with a benefit of a interim charging order on the beneficial interest of xxxx made by xx county court on 30/07/15 (court reference xx)

5 (19/10/2015) restriction no disposition of the registered estate other than the disposition by the proprietor of any registered charge registered before the entry of this restriction , is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for the registration or their conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to xxx, being the person with a benefit of a final charging order on the beneficial interest of xxxx made by xx county court on 17/09/15 (court reference xx)

[des8]

The Title register will show the names of the people that own the property and, if you are tenants in common will also have wording similar to: "No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court". If that wording is not there you are joint tenants.

It is very unlikely that anyone could show that the registry is incorrect and that he had changed his holding to tenants in common

[Feelikeafool]

Thank you so much you really have put my mind at rest I might be able to have something to eat today, I have been so worried I haven't been able to eat or sleep for days.

[efpom]

As you were joint tenants, you are now the sole owner. This means the property does not form part of the deceased's estate estate and cannot be considered when paying back outstanding debts.

Your next step is to notify the Land registry, per my previous post, aimed at removing the charge put on because of the deceased's debt. When the charge is removed, you can get on with selling the property.

[paulajayne]

incorrect advice given - POST deleted

[des8]

Take note of:-

"

This means the property does not form part of the deceased's estate estate and cannot be considered when paying back outstanding debts."

From EFROM.

That is important.

Sorry but disagree.
The effect of a charging order on a property owned by joint beneficial tenants is to sever the joint tenancy and thereafter the property is held as tenants in common (C Putnam & Sons v Archibald Taylor and Agneta Taylor [2009] EWHC 317 (Ch) )

This means the charging order (and probably other debts) is to be met from ex partners share, which is not necessarily 50% of the value of the property.
Attention will have to be taken of the respective inputs into the property to ascertain what his share was.

Sorry but I overlooked the effect of a charging order when first responding on this thread.
Have you checked with the creditor to see if the CCJ was satisfied? Possibly it was paid but the charging order not removed.
Why does his mother think she is entitled to a share of the house?

[Feelikeafool]

Sorry but disagree.
The effect of a charging order on a property owned by joint beneficial tenants is to sever the joint tenancy and thereafter the property is held as tenants in common (C Putnam & Sons v Archibald Taylor and Agneta Taylor [2009] EWHC 317 (Ch) )

This means the charging order (and probably other debts) is to be met from ex partners share, which is not necessarily 50% of the value of the property.
Attention will have to be taken of the respective inputs into the property to ascertain what his share was.

Sorry but I overlooked the effect of a charging order when first responding on this thread.
Have you checked with the creditor to see if the CCJ was satisfied? Possibly it was paid but the charging order not removed.
Why does his mother think she is entitled to a share of the house?

He hasnt paid anything toward the CCJ. When he died his mother informed the bank as that is who held his bank account the joint mortgage was also with them so they updated that removing his name. The bank manager told her she was entitled to half the house.

[Feelikeafool]

Should they not of then changed the wording on the title deed if we are now tenants in common?

[des8]

Land registry would not change the register without correct forms being completed.
They would not know the charge was due to a CCJ due from only one of the tenants.

As for the bank manager, how would he know what if anything was due to your ex's mother
He would not know in what proportion the property was held.

I suggest you seek professional legal advice to see what your options are.
If you can't afford a solicitor have a look around to see if any will offer a free initial or low cost fixed fee initial consultation.
If you are near a university you may be able to get advice from their law department

[efpom]

@des8 is right and I am wrong - I forgot that one effect of the charging order is to sever the joint tenancy - I am profoundly sorry for that mistake.

One question that occurs to me is: "If the charging order is removed, by paying the underlying debt, does the property revert to a joint tenancy?"