Claim received, but no particulars of claim

[Phoenix100]

I am looking for some help in how to proceed.

I received a claim form last week, but the particulars of claim section is blank. It doesn't state they are to follow. I intend to defend and counterclaim but not sure what to do first. The instructions state if the particulars of claim are not with the claim letter, it will state that they are to follow on the form and that the claimant has 14 days to send them. My concern is that the claim I have received states nothing. Do I just wait for them to be sent, and potentially miss my 14 day response time? Do I send the acknowledgement of service form back to allow 28 days to cover this? Should I just send my defence and counterclaim? I have called the money claims centre and they just said email the court and ask for the particulars of claim, but this can take 10 days for them to respond.

I suppose my overall question is, can the claim proceed without any particulars of claim on the form/ are they mandatory?

[wales01man]

Have you any ideas what the claim may be for? Have you received a letter before claim previous to this claim,

[des8]

Particulars must be served and filed cf CPR 7.4 (https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...les/part07#7.4)

Claimant risks claim being struck out and sanctioned if PoC not served

[Phoenix100]

Thanks for the replies. The claim is to do with a bathroom I had fitted last year. After a number of attempts to rectify several issues with the installation, I asked the builder to leave and offered him some money to consider the matter closed. He declined the offer and requested an independent report on his work. I had 2 reports done that both supported my concerns of poor original and remedial work and highlighted additional issues I was not originally aware of. He instructed a credit referencing and debt collection company to chase me for the money and they issued a letter before claim. I supplied them with the 2 reports and quotes to rectify the bathroom (which came to approx twice as much as the builders balance due to replacement costs of damaged items I had supplied). I told them I was not willing to pay him anything based on the rectification costs. The company sent a number of other letters demanding payment and made some offers of a reduced balance, but then informed me they had closed the case. The builder has now sent me a claim for the full payment. The brief details just states bathroom and then some details of what work he has done. If this claim proceeds then I will defend and counter claim for the full costs.

My understanding is that if no PoC are sent then the claim is on hold. Is it up to me to chase him for these, or will the court do this? I did call the court and they just told me to email the court for them, but had no response so far. Is it automatic that it will be struck out after 14 days, or am I in limbo until either the builder decides to proceed or the court looks at claim? Should I request the PoC from the builder?

[des8]

Just acknowledge the claim for now, and see what comes, if anything!

In the meantime draft your defence and counterclaim whilst there is no pressure

[Phoenix100]

Just acknowledge the claim for now, and see what comes, if anything!

In the meantime draft your defence and counterclaim whilst there is no pressure

Thank you for you help DES8. I am drafting my counterclaim. I am concerned that I only have one quote for the rectification work. Due to the job being a rectification and that I am in dispute with the builder some installers have been unwilling to quote. The one I have is from someone I have had work done from in the past and trust his workmanship. I am therefore happy to go with his quote (It's very similar to the original cost of the bathroom, so do not think it's excessive considering more or less everything needs redoing). Also due to the now unbearable smell which is throughout the house he has offered to commence some of the plumbing work in 2 weeks, which I plan to go ahead with (It's also the family bathroom which has not been fully usable since November and I have 2 young children). So, is it a problem I can not provide a number of quotes for the rectification in the counterclaim? Can I just base the claim on one quote?

[des8]

If only one installer is prepared to quote, you have no choice but to proceed with him, especially as there is some urgency required.
Be useful if you could persuade those others to confirm in writing they are not prepared to indicate a price.
It will just show you tried to mitigate your loss

Do you not have the "quotes" referred to in post 4?

[Phoenix100]

"quotes" refers to the quotes for the bathroom and redecoration of the kitchen ceiling / walls due to 2 water leaks.

[Phoenix100]

To update, I contacted the court to inform them that I had not received any POC as of the 15th April. As yet I have not had any response, therefore, I have written to the claimant to request them. In the meantime I am working on the counterclaim. I am however a bit confused as what to claim for. Any help would be most appreciated.

I provided the claimant with all our bathroom fittings and fixtures at approx £4500
The claimants quote for fitting was £4110 (although he now claims £4390 + £205 fees)

I have not paid the claimant any money due to the many issues we have had (we provided 2 independent reports after several failed attempts to rectify)
I did manage to get get 3 quotes for rectification at £8465, £8700 and £7690 (This quote did not include a number of items as did the previous 2, i.e tiles, flooring & decoration etc) . I also have 2 quotes to repair and redecorate our kitchen on at £570 and the other £580.

Due to the smell I went ahead with the first quote to rectify the bathroom. However, during the work more issues were uncovered and a number of item which we were hoping to salvage were damaged (by the claimant - taps, bath and other). This has therefore increased the cost another £1200. I am now concerned this is getting over £10K. So do I claim for the total cost of rectification - £8465 + £570 + £1200 + fees? Or do I need to take into consideration the claim against me? And is it worth keeping the claim to under 10K to avoid potential increased costs?

Thanks in advance

[jaguarsuk]

To update, I contacted the court to inform them that I had not received any POC as of the 15th April. As yet I have not had any response, therefore, I have written to the claimant to request them. In the meantime I am working on the counterclaim. I am however a bit confused as what to claim for. Any help would be most appreciated.

I provided the claimant with all our bathroom fittings and fixtures at approx £4500
The claimants quote for fitting was £4110 (although he now claims £4390 + £205 fees)

I have not paid the claimant any money due to the many issues we have had (we provided 2 independent reports after several failed attempts to rectify)
I did manage to get get 3 quotes for rectification at £8465, £8700 and £7690 (This quote did not include a number of items as did the previous 2, i.e tiles, flooring & decoration etc) . I also have 2 quotes to repair and redecorate our kitchen on at £570 and the other £580.

Due to the smell I went ahead with the first quote to rectify the bathroom. However, during the work more issues were uncovered and a number of item which we were hoping to salvage were damaged (by the claimant - taps, bath and other). This has therefore increased the cost another £1200. I am now concerned this is getting over £10K. So do I claim for the total cost of rectification - £8465 + £570 + £1200 + fees? Or do I need to take into consideration the claim against me? And is it worth keeping the claim to under 10K to avoid potential increased costs?

Thanks in advance

If you have received the claim on 1st April and Acknowledged service you need to file a defence and counterclaim asap as you have had 33 days to prevent the claimant applying for default judgement against you.

[des8]

I would keep the counterclaim to under £10,000

[Phoenix100]

Hi jaguarsuk As of today I had only recieved a claim form stating the amount claimed for and that it was for a bathroom. The POC box was blank. I was of the understanding that I have 28 days to defend and counterclaim from when these had been recieved (I did send the acknowledgement of service once the claim was recieved). Today I recieved the letter below, is this now considered to be the claimants POC?

Mx xxx the claim form xxxx county court claim that you have recieved.
The amount that I am claiming is £4390.00 which I have put on the claim form.
This is for work carried out on your bathroom, which I have also put on your form.
If you need any more information on this matter please let me know
Regards xxx

[jaguarsuk]

Hi jaguarsuk As of today I had only recieved a claim form stating the amount claimed for and that it was for a bathroom. The POC box was blank. I was of the understanding that I have 28 days to defend and counterclaim from when these had been recieved (I did send the acknowledgement of service once the claim was recieved). Today I recieved the letter below, is this now considered to be the claimants POC?

Mx xxx the claim form xxxx county court claim that you have recieved.
The amount that I am claiming is £4390.00 which I have put on the claim form.
This is for work carried out on your bathroom, which I have also put on your form.
If you need any more information on this matter please let me know
Regards xxx

Well it certainly isn't a compliant Particulars of Claim and you could apply to have it struck out purusant to CPR 22.2, but if you moved to have the claim struck out you'd have to wait to see if they claimed again (potentially with the same deficiency and going around in circles) or launch your own claim.

It might be better to defend and counterclaim using this as a particulars of claim, but point out the deficiency. If it were me I'd open it with:

1.The Defendant received the claim [Claim Number] from the [Name of Court – often Northampton or Salford] County Court on [Date you received the claim].

2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3. The Claimants statement of case is not compliant with CPR 16.4 or CPR 22.1 and fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

Then go on to complete your defence as to why you are not liable for the sum as claimed and finishing with:

(X denotes what the paragraph number of whatever you're up to by this point is)

X.Pursuant to CPR 16.5 (4) "Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation." Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

X.The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide detailed a detailed statement of case in order for The Defendant to fully plead his case.

X.In the event that a compliant statement of case is received from the Claimant, the Defendant will then be in a position to amend his defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

X.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

[Phoenix100]

Thank you so much for your help. I have drafted my defense and counterclaim. I am not sure if I've given too much detail considering the limited POC above, but I wanted to explain the case history. Would anyone be kind enough to look over it? I have attached a redacted copy.

[charitynjw]

If it were me, & because of the smell, I'd also contact my local authority environmental health dept.

http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/adlib/d...16NTBYC4N021T4