Hello, I'm delighted to have found this site. I started a Small Claim through CCMCC, my understanding being that the idea behind the Small Claims Court is that ordinary members of the public can bring proceedings without the need to instruct lawyers and incur legal costs. Not so. On Saturday I received a General Form of Judgment or Order making clear that "Unless the Claimant do by 4 pm Wednesday, 23 May 2018 send to the court and the Defendant a properly pleaded CPR complaint Particulars of Claim, then the claim be struck out automatically...." I visited my local CAB, who rang the County Court but could not obtain information on what was wrong with the original particulars. How do I put together something that will work?
What constitutes a properly pleaded Particulars of Claim?
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Hello I think you have misunderstood the meaning of small claims. First of all, there is no 'small claims court' but there is a small claims track which normally deals with cases up to £10,000 that are simple and straightforward. They are heard in the County Court and cases on this particular track means that costs such as legal fees are not recoverable generally, unless you have behaved unreasonably. It is also intended to be as less formal (but still follow the law) to allow non-legally minded people to bring legitimate claims. The small claims track is entirely different to pleading your claim. You still have to follow the rules which are laid out in the Civil Procedure Rules and there are certain rules on pleading your claim. In short, you have to give sufficient information to allow both the court and the defendant to understand the claim you are bringing. So for example, in a breach of contract case you would set out the parties, whether the contract was written or verbal, explain that the defendant breached the contract and how and finally that the breach had caused you to suffer loss. Some claims can be very brief, some can be longer depending on complexity but you do not have to go into every bit of detail on the claim form. The other point to note is that if you didn't set out the particulars of claim on the form itself, there is a specific way of setting out your claim on separate A4 paper. Obviously you haven't given any details of your particulars of claim so its difficult to say what the problem might have been, however the person reading it clearly doesn't think it is satisfactory. If you post up your particulars of claim (redact personal info) then we can tell you where you may have gone wrong.If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
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LEGAL DISCLAIMER
Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.
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Originally posted by des8 View PostHi and welcome
It would be helpful if you could give some details about your claim, and possibly post up your PoC that was deemed deficient
Thinking about it, what I would find most helpful given the time constraints is a template of a reasonably relevant Particulars of Claim that I can follow.
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Claims under CPUTR are not the easiest to bring, have you considered misrepresentation whether negligent or innocent? Have you also considered section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 where any statements about the service is legally binding on the trader?
Pleading your claim is not a 5 minute job and whilst we can provide you with examples of a template, you run the risk of getting your claim struck out if not done properly, which is why we suggest posting up what put in your POC already.
If, however, you are happy to plod along and do it yourself that is also fine but you only have one chance to make it right.If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
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LEGAL DISCLAIMER
Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.
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Originally posted by R0b View PostClaims under CPUTR are not the easiest to bring, have you considered misrepresentation whether negligent or innocent? Have you also considered section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 where any statements about the service is legally binding on the trader?
Pleading your claim is not a 5 minute job and whilst we can provide you with examples of a template, you run the risk of getting your claim struck out if not done properly, which is why we suggest posting up what put in your POC already.
If, however, you are happy to plod along and do it yourself that is also fine but you only have one chance to make it right.
The court document from which I quoted, that I only received on Saturday, directed me as follows: "A copy of the rule relevant to pleading can be found at https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...vil/rules/part 16. ..." I can see that I haven't followed the rule (from ignorance) but as you point out, that doesn't mean I'll manage to do a proper job the second time round.
Misrepresentation was not innocent. My friend and I are by no means alone in experiencing problems with lastminute.com - for confirmation, see reviews on, for instance, Sitejabber https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/lastminute.com
Tried very hard to get Trading Standards involved. They're a bit like a secret society. They can only be contacted via the CAB and no information was available on whether or not they will investigate.
I will take a look at section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.Attached Files
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Having looked at your particulars of claim, I can see why the court has said that you are not compliant. I've not scanned all 13 pages of the document but for a claim under £10,000 it seems pretty long.
I take it you are claiming breach of contract? It would be helpful if you can give brief summary of the background to your your claim and why you think they are in breach - and then we can work from there.
I'll post some more material later today when I have time.If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
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LEGAL DISCLAIMER
Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.
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Originally posted by Janicec12 View Post
Thank you; I will take you up on your very kind offer. I have attached the original Particulars (with names altered). Also notes I made for a revised version, indicating the specific CPUTR regulations implicated.
The court document from which I quoted, that I only received on Saturday, directed me as follows: "A copy of the rule relevant to pleading can be found at https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...vil/rules/part 16. ..." I can see that I haven't followed the rule (from ignorance) but as you point out, that doesn't mean I'll manage to do a proper job the second time round.
Misrepresentation was not innocent. My friend and I are by no means alone in experiencing problems with lastminute.com - for confirmation, see reviews on, for instance, Sitejabber https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/lastminute.com
Tried very hard to get Trading Standards involved. They're a bit like a secret society. They can only be contacted via the CAB and no information was available on whether or not they will investigate.
I will take a look at section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
A POC should be a concise outline of your claim and the Witness Statement would be more detailed dates and evidence etc.COMPLETING AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) GUIDE
My posts here are based on my experience of a variety of life events. I have no formal legal training & if in doubt take professional legal advice or contact CAB. If you follow anything I write here you do so at your own risk & I accept no liability for any loss, costs or other outcomes.
Private messages are disabled as help is only offered publicly. I do not come on here in the evening, at weekends or on public holidays.
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I've tried to read your particulars of claim and understand it but quite frankly the best I can make out is that you made a booking with Lastminute.com and something went wrong. You are going to have to explain your issues concisely if we have any chance of helping you and putting together a Particulars of Claim in the correct format.
The very first thing you need to do is establish what is known as a 'cause of action'. This term essentially means the legal basis for your claim for example, breach of contract, misrepresentation, negligence etc. In order find out whether you have a cause of action you should really understand the facts and evidence to support your case because the elements you have to establish will vary depending on the cause of action you are pursuing.
Breaches of contract for example, require the following to be established:
1. Evidence of a contract whether written or oral and the subject matter e.g. goods or services
2. What were the key terms of the contract you are relying on and were they express written or implied into the contract by some legislation.
3. How the terms of the contract were breach.
4. The breach of contract resulted in you suffering damage or loss (damage meaning physical such as personal injury, reputation, property etc.)
5. Evidence of the damage or loss sustained.
So that we can narrow down the issues at play here, I've attached a document that you might want to complete, which will help both you and us to understand your claim - you can find it at the bottom of my post.
I've also attached a template Particulars of Claim, which you can use to fill in and complete. Each new point must be in a separate paragraph and all paragraphs must be numbered. Remember, that the POC is only a skeleton outline and it should be kept brief but concise to show that you have a cause of action. Headings aren't strictly required in your POC but I prefer it and it is good practice to delineate and help the reader understand what you are talking about.If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
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LEGAL DISCLAIMER
Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.
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Originally posted by Janicec12 View PostHello, I'm delighted to have found this site. I started a Small Claim through CCMCC, my understanding being that the idea behind the Small Claims Court is that ordinary members of the public can bring proceedings without the need to instruct lawyers and incur legal costs. Not so. On Saturday I received a General Form of Judgment or Order making clear that "Unless the Claimant do by 4 pm Wednesday, 23 May 2018 send to the court and the Defendant a properly pleaded CPR complaint Particulars of Claim, then the claim be struck out automatically...." I visited my local CAB, who rang the County Court but could not obtain information on what was wrong with the original particulars. How do I put together something that will work?
What was the Claim you issued? Can you possibly provide an outline of the particulars of claim you have put forward? this may give us the info to understand what the Courts issues wereI work for Roach Pittis Solicitors. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.
If you need to contact me please email me on Pt@roachpittis.co.uk .
I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.
You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.
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ignore my last post, ive found the pleadings.I work for Roach Pittis Solicitors. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.
If you need to contact me please email me on Pt@roachpittis.co.uk .
I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.
You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.
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Originally posted by R0b View PostI've tried to read your particulars of claim and understand it but quite frankly the best I can make out is that you made a booking with Lastminute.com and something went wrong. You are going to have to explain your issues concisely if we have any chance of helping you and putting together a Particulars of Claim in the correct format.
The very first thing you need to do is establish what is known as a 'cause of action'. This term essentially means the legal basis for your claim for example, breach of contract, misrepresentation, negligence etc. In order find out whether you have a cause of action you should really understand the facts and evidence to support your case because the elements you have to establish will vary depending on the cause of action you are pursuing.
Breaches of contract for example, require the following to be established:
1. Evidence of a contract whether written or oral and the subject matter e.g. goods or services
2. What were the key terms of the contract you are relying on and were they express written or implied into the contract by some legislation.
3. How the terms of the contract were breach.
4. The breach of contract resulted in you suffering damage or loss (damage meaning physical such as personal injury, reputation, property etc.)
5. Evidence of the damage or loss sustained.
So that we can narrow down the issues at play here, I've attached a document that you might want to complete, which will help both you and us to understand your claim - you can find it at the bottom of my post.
I've also attached a template Particulars of Claim, which you can use to fill in and complete. Each new point must be in a separate paragraph and all paragraphs must be numbered. Remember, that the POC is only a skeleton outline and it should be kept brief but concise to show that you have a cause of action. Headings aren't strictly required in your POC but I prefer it and it is good practice to delineate and help the reader understand what you are talking about.
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Morning,
If you've not started drafting your particulars of claim I would suggest you do so as soon as possible, since you only have until Wednesday to file it.
In the analysis document you typed up, that is helpful but there's a couple of outstanding points I'm not clear on.
1. You mention a packaged holiday but you've not mentioned what the holiday consisted of? You have to be very specific and set out what exactly you agreed to pay for.
2. As for the express terms, again you have to specify what those terms are that you are seeking to rely on.
3. You said that the website indicated you were buying 29 nights accommodation, did you get an order confirmation of that? In fact, did you get any order confirmation at all and how does that compare with what you were purchasing? If the contract showed 0 nights, did you not see this on the order summary screen prior to purchase? Also, did they take payment for the cost of the 29 nights you were expecting? If you didn't see the 29 nights on your order summary and also the confirmation of the booking, why didn't you raise it at the time?
4. You said you have an admission by lasminute.com of their mistakes - is this in writing or was it verbally? If verbally, when did that happen, do you remember the date?
The above points are just an example of a few things that you will need to clear up in your particulars of claim. If you want feedback post it up prior and one of us will comment on it.
If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
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LEGAL DISCLAIMER
Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.
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Originally posted by R0b View PostMorning,
If you've not started drafting your particulars of claim I would suggest you do so as soon as possible, since you only have until Wednesday to file it.
In the analysis document you typed up, that is helpful but there's a couple of outstanding points I'm not clear on.
1. You mention a packaged holiday but you've not mentioned what the holiday consisted of? You have to be very specific and set out what exactly you agreed to pay for.
2. As for the express terms, again you have to specify what those terms are that you are seeking to rely on.
3. You said that the website indicated you were buying 29 nights accommodation, did you get an order confirmation of that? In fact, did you get any order confirmation at all and how does that compare with what you were purchasing? If the contract showed 0 nights, did you not see this on the order summary screen prior to purchase? Also, did they take payment for the cost of the 29 nights you were expecting? If you didn't see the 29 nights on your order summary and also the confirmation of the booking, why didn't you raise it at the time?
4. You said you have an admission by lasminute.com of their mistakes - is this in writing or was it verbally? If verbally, when did that happen, do you remember the date?
The above points are just an example of a few things that you will need to clear up in your particulars of claim. If you want feedback post it up prior and one of us will comment on it.
I had taken note of the fact that you do not come on the site on week-ends and as I'm really really slow when it comes to legal matters I have been working at my revised PoC since last I heard from you. I just this morning got it to a state I hoped would be acceptable, but I am relieved to have heard from you and to have your offer that someone will look over the document. I will need to go into town to get the final version printed but I am assuming it will be OK done tomorrow, with me taking the document to the court and posting a copy to lastminute.com before 4 p.m.
To answer your points, the components of the package are listed in the PofC and the 29 days, 28 nights (as per the website) that became 29 days, 0 nights on the contract document (Booking Confirmation) is also explained. Of course we pointed this out to lastminute.com; it was an important reason we wished to withdraw from the contract as we envisaged the hotel chucking us out on the beach every night. (It's funny up to a point, but the reviews I drew your attention to indicate such things can happen with lastminute.com. A review that particularly concerned us, as two elderly women, reads as follows:
“Bait-and-switch operation DO NOT USE!”
7/24/17
"Note firstly that the impressive looking map-style web site showing hotels (as, for example, booking.com does), DOES NOT show availability or even price, it is just a generic map of hotels in any given city where lastminute.com may or may not have booked customers before the fraudsters took over this site..
"By pretending that you have a reservation, lastminute.com delivers you and your whole family and all your luggage to a hotel where the site has just cancelled your reservation! So that firstly you cannot go anywhere else and secondly the hotel can charge you (switch the charge to) the highest possible rate ever charged by that hotel for that room.
"Do not feel comforted by lastminute having charged your credit card: They carefully cancel the charge before you arrive at the hotel so that the credit card company cannot assist you and you don't find out that they have done this until you get your statement a month later!
"Lastminute.com does have a telephone support system but it is the type of system where some indian operator takes your call in the full knowledge that theirs is a bait-and-switch operation and places you on hold endlessly while they take other calls and come back every 15-20 minutes to see if your cellphone battery has run out and you have taken the switch yet. If you are persistent enough to go through the charade of making a reservation with them out of desperation (we did,- at the Hilton Paddington) you will find they have switched you to some dump next door (called the Mercure, where the astronomically expensive room was just a tiny border around the bed too small even to open a suitcase!) where they have a profit-sharing arrangement to shake you down. ..."
I do not know if the operation is bait-and-switch where my friend and I are concerned but we really, really cannot afford to end up somewhere that isn't the hotel we booked for in a country like Egypt.
I attach my revised PofC and await a response - and thank you with all my heart.
Best wishes,
Jan
Attached Files
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Hi Janice,
Going to be very blunt with you so don't take it too personally. Your POC contains far too much opinion - POC's are strictly for facts only, no opinions, legal argument or anything else should be included. I am yet to see in the draft POC where Last Minute have breached the contract, you seem to have written a lot of smoke but nothing is behind it. If I was a judge I would strike out your claim as having no reasonable cause of action.
Be straight to the point, keep it factual and identify the breaches, not your own personal opinions. I would suggest you re-visit your POC and have another go - I've uploaded a very revised version also with comments and brackets in there to help you along.
Give it another go and upload it here if you want further feedback. I assume you didn't include the headers at the top of the doucment because it contains personal information but you need to make sure that is included or its non-compliant and liable to be struck out. Also, you also need to remember that each paragraph needs to be numbered, otherwise it is non-compliant and liable to be struck out.
The document itself is set up so it has several styles which can be easily used but I don't know what version of Word you are using so difficult to show you. Anyway if you are using Word 2010 or above, you should see a number of styles at the top some of them are named as "Level 1, Level 2 and Level 3". They relate to the numbering system of the document. If you are struggling or don't know how to do it, then sort out your POC first and I can finalise the document before you submit it.Attached FilesIf you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
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LEGAL DISCLAIMER
Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.
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