Statute Barred Debts and Court

It appears to me that a lot of DCA's are currently issuing claims for SB debts, and often ignoring 31.14 requests and even CCA requests.

I've always taken the view it's best to keep quiet once a debt goes SB lest it come back to haunt you.

Given so many are now coming back to haunt people, should we be advising people to send the SB letter as soon as they know for sure it is SB to the creditor at that time, in order to try to pre-empt any potential action later on?

I don't know how these claims are doing in court, but if they were all failing, I assume the DCA's would stop issuing the claims.

Any thoughts / comments anyone? :beagle:

[skilganon]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

It appears to me that a lot of DCA's are currently issuing claims for SB debts, and often ignoring 31.14 requests and even CCA requests.

I've always taken the view it's best to keep quiet once a debt goes SB lest it come back to haunt you.

Given so many are now coming back to haunt people, should we be advising people to send the SB letter as soon as they know for sure it is SB to the creditor at that time, in order to try to pre-empt any potential action later on?

I don't know how these claims are doing in court, but if they were all failing, I assume the DCA's would stop issuing the claims.

Any thoughts / comments anyone? :beagle:

this is a very good point you raise and one worth mentioning,

i know DCA's are known to produce 'phantom' payments to avoid SB'd debts

i also know of an ongoing case where the defendant made a CCA request to a well known DCA

they replied by stating they would not be providing any copy agreement as they had failed to enclose the £1 statutory fee

they then made a further request enclosing a £1 postal order, 3/4 weeks later no copy of an agreement, instead a statement:

alleged debt £3000
payments received £1
balance due £2999

unfortunately in civil cases it seems the defendant is guilty until proven innocent:mad2:

[Wombats]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

That is my worry (guilty till proven innocent). It totally defeats the point of a debt going SB if it can be resurrected with phantom payments, or even just as a normal SB debt. SB used to be a total defence. I'm wondering if it still is?

[Amethyst]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

I'd always recommend telling a DCA the debt is statute barred once it is, and once you start hearing from them with more than a fishing trip.

Problem is we don't tend to see people on here until they receive a court claim so are forced to try and defend the debt on SB basis in court.

Not all cases are 'invented' payments, quite often it's a forgotten payment made during a phone call from a DCA. Hence I always try and get people to get hold of the bank statements from the time they feel the debt became statute barred so that can be ruled out before relying on just SB defence in court.

However as we have seen this week with Mikey - even with bank statements showing no payments have been made - the judge can still side with the DCA who seems to just have to produce a random sheet on paper and say they are payments made, even when they obviously aren't.

[Wombats]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

Yes, it was Mikey's case, along with another for my Sister-in-Law on the forum and one of my own off forum which brought the question to a head in my mind.

Do we know of any cases lost yet, where there have been no payments? I know it may sound a stupid question, but the way things seem to be going, you get the feeling it's only a matter of time.

It also appears frequently they can ignore pre-action protocol, especially with regards to a formal (and correct) LBA. This concerns me, as people may still think it's not going to court as they have not had a clear LBA. A vague mention of being instructed to issue legal proceedings is only as bad as many letters from any DCA, yet now seems to be acceptable as a LBA.

All a worrying trend!

[Amethyst]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

Yes, Mikeys. 18k debt and costs against him when no payments have been made since July 2007, he evidenced he had not made payments with his bank statements and asked for proof of the payments alledged made, and all the other side did was waft about a sheet of A4 paper with some internal accounting rubbish on it and the Judge swallowed it.

[Wombats]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

So we have to assume that a SB debt is not SB as the courts might ignore legislation.

In light of this, how best do we protect ourselves and others when a debt is coming up to SB or we know it to be SB?

I guess the answer is get the evidence in advance of it going SB via a SAR (given most, like me, would not have past paperwork). After it goes SB give it 3 or 4 months to be extra sure, run it past the forum to be extra extra sure, then write to the current creditor stating it is SB and ask for confirmation of this. Would the creditor confirm it? Has anyone tried? I'm thinking out loud for ways to protect people with SB debts.

It appears to make the entire post 2007 unenforceability argument totally pointless.

[Amethyst]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

TOugh to get the evidence without acknowledging the debt and thus resetting the clock. Evidence AFTER it has gone SB would be better. But BEFORE the COURT CLAIM.

[Wombats]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

That leaves a bit of a Catch 22 situation then, as without the info you can't be sure it's SB, but until it's SB it's unwise to send for the info.

Hmmm....... thinking time. There must be a way to protect people, it's finding it. It sort of affects me directly, though I don't care if I'm made BK. Obviously it would be better not to be BK'd. I'm thinking more of thousands of others who are in this situation and whose lives would be turned upside down by BK.

Is there a SAR which is generic and doesn't acknowledge a debt? It must be possible to ask for information about yourself without mentioning a specific account, thus acknowledging a potential debt. If there isn't one, I'm very happy to try to write one if it would help?

[Amethyst]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

Another one here http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ted-14-10-2014

Yes you can send a SAR without acknowledging the debt, but there's always the risk it will alert the companies to it's near stat barrededness so they take action sooner. If you're going for stat barred and you've got 5 years 8 months along the road, then I wouldn't want to recommend any one pokes the hornets nest until they are safetly over the six years.

[Wombats]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

Nope - nor would I. :beagle:

It's a tricky one. They seem to have switched from going for the SD as the threat to this, probably with a view to getting CO's on property owners to secure the debt. That's where I'm lucky as I own nothing worth taking anymore, and making me BK would genuinely help me. I can't afford to make myself BK. Been in this same position for about 4 or 5 years now since CAB advised me to stop paying anyone and let my creditors make me BK. I've asked 3 to, but they wouldn't. It puts me in a reasonable position.

Others are different, and it's them (as well as me obviously) I'm primarily thinking about - those for whom it would be a disaster.

Another part of me thinks a defended CCJ is no bad thing as you only pay what you can afford to pay. Your CRF is screwed for 6 years anyway, so a CCJ on there for 6 years is going to make little difference. Next is the issue of the means enquiry for the court - do you put down SB debts or not? If you do the court may make you bankrupt. Catch 22 again ...........

Loads of issues to think about about for people, and very tricky to decide what to do. It has to be each case on its own merits as no two will be the same.

I need a better brain!

[Amethyst]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

YOu know when you have bailiffs and whatnot you get a signed statutory declaration to say the car isn't yours etc. Could you do the same with ( 100% certain) statute barred debt ?

and could that trump their random inconclusive printout ?

[Crazy council]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

can you find the info you need from your credit file - re SB debt. or at least get a good indication as to when the last payment was

[mark andrew]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

I think you could approx time depending on when entry usually 3-6 is the guidance on defaults notices being put on your file .

[Wombats]

Re: Statute Barred Debts and Court

YOu know when you have bailiffs and whatnot you get a signed statutory declaration to say the car isn't yours etc. Could you do the same with ( 100% certain) statute barred debt ?

and could that trump their random inconclusive printout ?

You could do it but, and bear with me as I'm learning about courts slowly, so don't know a lot ......


My understanding is that if you have said it is SB, the burden of proof is on them to prove a payment. You are saying one thing, they're saying another. They are being believed.

Say I do a Stat Dec to say I've not made any payments, then they produce a piece of paper 'proving' I have, it's the same position isn't it? I say I haven't, they say I have. Who does the judge believe? Same situation as if you haven't made a stat dec.

Is that thinking right, or am I wrong somewhere?