What is a fair benefits system?

[leclerc]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

Don't mention the war!

[CleverClogs]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

Don't mention the war!

Why not?

It's not like we won - we just failed to lose it.

[jon1965]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

Someone will have a fit....accuse you of being racist

[FlamingParrot]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

I love Fawlty Towers! :high5:

…and you couldn't get the staff even in 1975, hence the need to bring Manuel all the way from Barcelona. msl:

[Sapphire]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

Just read this, I know its the Daily Mail but I suspect the figures are true, so come on how fair is that to the working people of this country ? Oh and before you all go on about rents being high, yes I agree there should be a cap on them too, but we also need to demolish the unused buildings in the cities and give people homes there rather than sending them out to the suburbs and overcrowding us.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...our-wants.html

[jon1965]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

What is missed of course is the fact that a couple with kids earning 26K would then also get benefits which would increase their income.
The need for social housing is huge and we all know where that started to go wrong don't we.

Sapphire do you want the poor to be kept in inner city ghettos, I notice you don't want them "overcrowding us" although I do agree that if you are going to build new homes in rural locations you have to ensure the infrastructure is there

[Sapphire]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

I certainly don't want the 'poor' to be in ghetto's although there are ghetto's in certain areas already. However what I do think is that people should not be forced to move out of their area away from friends, families because of rents etc when there are empty buildings than can be put to use with a little investment and thought.

Anyways how do you feel that people have to earn £41 k to get the same as a family on the social getting £26 k ? Is that fair..... I think not.

[jon1965]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

Sapphy glad we agree on that, and yes I agree with what you say about utilising brownfield sites or existing buildings to increase available accommodation.

When you put it like that 41K etc it does of course seem absurd. However we need to be looking at the whole picture and the whole package. It is a great headline to keep the DM readers happy but when you look behind the facts you see that it will not save much money and where are these people who get that amount of money

[FlamingParrot]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

What is missed of course is the fact that a couple with kids earning 26K would then also get benefits which would increase their income.
The need for social housing is huge and we all know where that started to go wrong don't we.

Sapphire do you want the poor to be kept in inner city ghettos, I notice you don't want them "overcrowding us" although I do agree that if you are going to build new homes in rural locations you have to ensure the infrastructure is there

I certainly don't want the 'poor' to be in ghetto's although there are ghetto's in certain areas already. However what I do think is that people should not be forced to move out of their area away from friends, families because of rents etc when there are empty buildings than can be put to use with a little investment and thought.

Anyways how do you feel that people have to earn £41 k to get the same as a family on the social getting £26 k ? Is that fair..... I think not.

All this has to be put into perspective and I can see the contradictions on the quotes above. Some parts of the country, notably London, are much more expensive than others. Within a big city like London, there's also a wide range of areas and rents. In some parts of the capital, £1000 a month would only get you a studio, and you'd need 3 or 4 times that amount to rent a home suitable for a family. If people are not to be forced out of their area, they'll need to rely on benefits, HB in particular, to remain in that area, because you'd need a very high salary to be able to rent a family home by yourself in such areas.

In other parts of the country you can rent a family home for, say, £400/month. What would be fair:

a) top up a family's income so they can afford to stay in their area
b) force the family to move to a cheaper area, miles away from family and friends
c) force families reliant exclusively on benefits to move, whilst allowing those who work (but need benefit top-ups) to remain in expensive areas. If so, how long are you supposed to be on benefits before you are forced to move?

Not an easy answer, is it? :noidea: :decision:

[Sapphire]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

All this has to be put into perspective and I can see the contradictions on the quotes above. Some parts of the country, notably London, are much more expensive than others. Within a big city like London, there's also a wide range of areas and rents. In some parts of the capital, £1000 a month would only get you a studio, and you'd need 3 or 4 times that amount to rent a home suitable for a family. If people are not to be forced out of their area, they'll need to rely on benefits, HB in particular, to remain in that area, because you'd need a very high salary to be able to rent a family home by yourself in such areas.

In other parts of the country you can rent a family home for, say, £400/month. What would be fair:

a) top up a family's income so they can afford to stay in their area - that would be a good idea but there would have to be strict rules and criteria
b) force the family to move to a cheaper area, miles away from family and friends - no way would I ask people to do that
c) force families reliant exclusively on benefits to move, whilst allowing those who work (but need benefit top-ups) to remain in expensive areas. If so, how long are you supposed to be on benefits before you are forced to move? - the only way would be to find out why they are on benefits, is it illness/disability in which case then help them to stay in their home, is it that they are genuinely unemployed and are actively looking for work then yes help them, but and here's the one that will cause ructions, if they are lazy and feckless and are not showing any inclination to work then yes, move them, but where too I have an idea but I doubt anyone would like it, but it would work.

Not an easy answer, is it? :noidea: :decision:

I've tried to answer

[Inca]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

I maintain that those on benefits that keep producing kids shouldn't get paid for doing it......and shouldn't be bumped up the housing list because they run out of room in the house they're in.Wouldn't be overcrowded if they didn't procreate.
Most working people have to 'plan' for kids (unless they are minted).

[leclerc]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

All this has to be put into perspective and I can see the contradictions on the quotes above. Some parts of the country, notably London, are much more expensive than others. Within a big city like London, there's also a wide range of areas and rents. In some parts of the capital, £1000 a month would only get you a studio, and you'd need 3 or 4 times that amount to rent a home suitable for a family. If people are not to be forced out of their area, they'll need to rely on benefits, HB in particular, to remain in that area, because you'd need a very high salary to be able to rent a family home by yourself in such areas.

In other parts of the country you can rent a family home for, say, £400/month. What would be fair:

a) top up a family's income so they can afford to stay in their area spend more which does not help the deficit.
b) force the family to move to a cheaper area, miles away from family and friends make new friends and be able to afford a trip to family or vice versa
c) force families reliant exclusively on benefits to move, whilst allowing those who work (but need benefit top-ups) to remain in expensive areas. If so, how long are you supposed to be on benefits before you are forced to move? if they are benefit reliant then like drugs perhaps rehab to ween them off the drug might help so put in the help that allows them to get off benefit.

Not an easy answer, is it? :noidea: :decision:

See above

[Sapphire]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

I maintain that those on benefits that keep producing kids shouldn't get paid for doing it......and shouldn't be bumped up the housing list because they run out of room in the house they're in.Wouldn't be overcrowded if they didn't procreate.
Most working people have to 'plan' for kids (unless they are minted).

Exactly right Inca, no one should have children unless they can afford them, yes I know there's exceptional circumstances such as widowhood and these ladies should be supported in full, but on 'London tonight' was a couple of women one with 2 kids and one with 6 kids whinging about losing the money, but there was no mention where the fathers are, so shouldn't the fathers be contributing to the upkeep.

[CleverClogs]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

Just read this, I know its the Daily Mail but I suspect the figures are true, so come on how fair is that to the working people of this country ?

It is the usual, socially divisive twaddle promulgated by the snollygosters currently power and willingly propagated by the Daily Wail.

Oh and before you all go on about rents being high, yes I agree there should be a cap on them too, but we also need to demolish the unused buildings in the cities and give people homes there rather than sending them out to the suburbs and overcrowding us.

Why demolish buildings that could be converted?

[CleverClogs]

Re: What is a fair benefits system?

It is a great headline to keep the DM readers happy but when you look behind the facts you see that it will not save much money and where are these people who get that amount of money