Discussion

[teaboy2]

Re: What are the amounts allowed by creditors in a budget.

With regards to THIS thread, Latch Key Kid went a bit too far(post 4) and Labman sought to continue on the argument to be honest(post 7) when the argument was done and dusted(post 6).
If we want to discuss the past then feel free to move the post cos I am sure we can all have a blast. I have to say that is how I saw it on THIS thread and not any other thread. As for what was said within those posts, I could probably agree and disagree with some points.
I think LKK though might want to reply for themselves at some point so I won't put words into your mouth

If you all think things are bullying or harrassment on the forum then surely you know how to report that fact, don't you? Or have you all become a bunch of thickies :o

Oh but they have been reported, though given its mainly between the more exprienced members of the forum its difficult for the admins to take a stance without running the risk of upsetting people, who will no doubt take issue with the admins stance, regardless of which side the admin chooses to take. Also leclerc you know perfectly well its not just what is being said on the public forum but also elsewhere and what is happening and being said behind the scenes too!

I think Labmans post was more in defense and hes entitled to respond as such too, i know would off.

Though i agree this argument should be moved to its own thread.

[enaid]

Re: What are the amounts allowed by creditors in a budget.

Sorry Enaid but theirs a difference between telling someone his advise is wrong and bullying them

Yes I do know that, but when someone can not believe they can be wrong. then it must appear as if they are being bullied.

[leclerc]

Re: What are the amounts allowed by creditors in a budget.

Oh but they have been reported, though given its mainly between the more exprienced members of the forum its difficult for the admins to take a stance without running the risk of upsetting people, who will no doubt take issue with the admins stance, regardless of which side the admin chooses to take. Also leclerc you know perfectly well its not just what is being said on the public forum but also elsewhere and what is happening and being said behind the scenes too!
Admin took a side, Saffy said knock if off(to paraphrase it). It's hardly standing on the fence a having your backside getting splints.
I think Labmans post was more in defense and hes entitled to respond as such too, i know would off.
LKK went further than he should on the post I mentioned but said TWICE "let's get on with helping and supporting people". With respect, Labman felt that it was important to continue the argument with LKK post 7.
Though i agree this argument should be moved to its own thread.

I think admin will do something like that in time no doubt and shout at all of us for being silly and childish.....anyway am off to retrieve my rattle

[Guest]

Re: What are the amounts allowed by creditors in a budget.

HI
Well I am shocked at the behaviour on this thread, so glad that I am now above this kind of thing.
Peter

[astraldream]

Re: What are the amounts allowed by creditors in a budget.

As a new forum member i have had a massive amount of support which i cant put in to words how much stress it has taken off me by many memers but particulay Labman.

So Thankyou Labman whoever you may be in real life. You always seem happy and genuine person who wants to help.

[teaboy2]

Re: What are the amounts allowed by creditors in a budget.

Originally Posted by teaboy2
Oh but they have been reported, though given its mainly between the more exprienced members of the forum its difficult for the admins to take a stance without running the risk of upsetting people, who will no doubt take issue with the admins stance, regardless of which side the admin chooses to take. Also leclerc you know perfectly well its not just what is being said on the public forum but also elsewhere and what is happening and being said behind the scenes too!
Admin took a side, Saffy said knock if off(to paraphrase it). It's hardly standing on the fence a having your backside getting splints. - Thats not taking sides, thats simply an attempt to defuse things.
I think Labmans post was more in defense and hes entitled to respond as such too, i know would off.
LKK went further than he should on the post I mentioned but said TWICE "let's get on with helping and supporting people". With respect, Labman felt that it was important to continue the argument with LKK post 7. - I agree but you also have to taken into account things that are not just happening int he thread but behind the scenes and on other sites too, which Labman is fully aware off, its like a pathetic hate campaign against him - so off course he quite rightly felt the need to speak out about it and i do not blame him for that.
Though i agree this argument should be moved to its own thread.

I think admin will do something like that in time no doubt and shout at all of us for being silly and childish.....anyway am off to retrieve my rattle

Unfortunately yes they will eventually have to take sides, but hopefully people can learn to put aside differences and swallow their pride abit so this can be resolved here and now without the site admin having to choose sides or take any actions against any one.

Sorry Enaid but theirs a difference between telling someone his advise is wrong and bullying them

Yes I do know that, but when someone can not believe they can be wrong. then it must appear as if they are being bullied.

Read more at: Legal Beagles Consumer Forum - Reply to Topic

But Enaid, what makes them wrong - A few people disagreeing with them, lack of knowledge leading them to wholeheartedly believing it is correct? We all do it enaid, we all truely believe we are correct and struggle to accept that we may be wrong.

Question is, is it so wrong to be wrong when your a newbie, does i give others the right to casterate you for being wrong and when the newbie steadfastly refuses to believe their wrong, when a newbie who is likely inexperienced and desperate to not embarress themselves.

The answer is nothing to do with whether they are wrong or right or if they are wrong and refuse to accept being wrong. Its more about us being a bit more understanding, and not rising up to a newbie when if they do respond steadfastly denying they are wrong, and simply instead avoid the argument, purely because you know their a newbie and that by carrying on the thread giving the correct advice, will likley lead to the newbie realising they were indeed wrong anyway. So yes when more exprienced member gang up on a newbie then yes it is daunting on them and can be classed as bullying behavouir.

But end of the day, what has any of this that happened way back in the past got to do with whats happening now and why you are all against labman? As its clear his advice nowadays is 99% of the time correct - And the OFT agrees and are fully aware of the advice he posts on here and they gave him a license without any problems with the advice he posts here!

So who the hell gives a crap about whether the advice he gave was wrong or not when he first joined way back in the past? No one does, as it no longer matters one bit - Hence why bringing it up is nothing but an excuse being used as reasoning for the current campaign against him.

[Sapphire]

Re: What are the amounts allowed by creditors in a budget.

Right I've had enough, am moving this to its own thread, going to call it 'discussion' and its going in Lamp Post, if it gets nasty I will delete it.

Celestine will probably be on later, if she's not happy with this then she will move it/delete it or whatever but I have done this so the OP of the thread can receive help.

[labman]

Re: What are the amounts allowed by creditors in a budget.

I hope this is a balanced, reasoned, factual response to all the above.

Let's separate some issues here. Firstly the suggestion I don't believe I can be wrong. That is plain ridiculous. I am wrong sometimes, we all are. I even say frequently in my posts words along the lines of, "Don't take this as 100% but......" or even, "I can't help you with x, but with regards to y ........." For anyone who thinks I believe I'm Mr Perfect, I am far from and make no pretence of trying to be.

There's then two separate, but inter-related issues, those of me, Labman as a person and those of my charity.

As regards me as a person, people are entitled to think what they wish. For what it's worth, and for the moment you'll have to accept my word for this, there was an exceedingly good reason why Labman came into existence, and the previous name (PLEASE do not sink low enough to mention it anyone) was removed. The reason, for the record, was nothing whatsoever to do with this site. It was to do with a highly sensitive personal issue about which Celestine is fully aware, and was alerted to immediately. That personal reason is nothing whatsoever to do with anyone else on here unless I choose to share it with them. It is nothing sinister, nothing that should concern anyone, but it is very sensitive.
Because of this, Labman came into being. I could not, and still cannot, come 100% clean about my previous username again for highly sensitive, personal reasons. That I trust will be respected by everyone with any integrity themselves.

It is also significant that the bullying, manifesting itself in the way it is, started right back then. It is something I have tolerated until today. Today I decided enough was enough, and so I made my post. The very first thing I did then was to report it to the site admin, as promised in my post.

The bullying by a minority of people, is despicable, as is all bullying. It should be stamped out. I would hope nobody on a consumer help site would condone underhand, devious behaviour targeted against another member. This has happened to me.

Of course once out in the open, it is hard for the people concerned to have a voice without arousing suspicion, or being criticised for fear of being labelled. Sadly that is what happens to bullies. Once labelled, as I was some time ago, the label is difficult to get rid of even if it may not, at that time be true any longer.

The other issue is my charity. That remains successful and helps many people. I no longer have it in my signature, and replaced it with something a little bitter, as I felt bitter at having to replace it. It only reads as bitter to those who feel it may be targeted at them though, and if they feel that, maybe they should ask why. For 99.9% of people on the site it is 'just another signature.'

It is a shame that my charity attracted the reaction it did. I actually understand why it did, and much was to do with my refusal to name it. That refusal was down to two things. Firstly my feeling that site admin should have the first say about the signature, not me. the second thing was purely because the charity is registered to my home address. I do not want my name and home address publicised all over the internet. Those who have dealt with my charity can check all information about it and me, and thus know my home address and true name. Anyone who is not a client has no need to know. If you are one of the people who has tried to find out more about the 'Who is Labman? What is his charity caled?' ask yourself if you would be prepared to publish your name and address on here. I suspect you would not be keen to do so.

I suspect some of the things happening behind the scenes have been very devious. I suspect many do not realise, and need not realise, just how devious. It certainly casts a different light on things.

My charity continues, all is well with it, all is above board as it always has been - that is it. It really is not that interesting. I have NEVER touted for trade, and the vast majority of people I help have it pointed out by me that there are other free charities which are bigger, can access better resources etc.... If they still choose to ask for my help, I give it to the very best of my ability, and all feedback to date has been positive. There have been cases I have passed on to more learned people as they are beyond my capabilities. I always do this as soon as I see things are heading that way in order that the person gets the best help possible.

There is no ego involved. Some obviously find that hard to believe. Those I have helped here, sometimes necessarily behind the scenes, know that to be true.

That I think covers most things, hopefully factually and objectively - something which you may understand is not necessarily that easy when the subject of this sort of scrutiny.

Personally I would like it if we could draw a line under this now and move on, though I understand that may be difficult, especially as some at work may not have seen thhis and may wish to comment. Again, for those who know me, they will not be surprised that this is my reaction. I simply do not like conflict.

I hope the bullying stops. I hope the underhand 'investigating Labman' stops. I hope we can do what we should be doing and work together to help all posters to the best of our ability. Time will tell.

[leclerc]

Re: Discussion

Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd/Littlewoods/Very - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Post 4 I think on the thread when giving advice. When you say "my charity" that is how some would interpret touting for business. I am sure it was inintended but it is an interpretation that can be made in spite of saying other charities first.

Have to go otherwise would have replied slightly more long winded........

[teaboy2]

Re: Discussion

Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd/Littlewoods/Very - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Post 4 I think on the thread when giving advice. When you say "my charity" that is how some would interpret touting for business. I am sure it was inintended but it is an interpretation that can be made in spite of saying other charities first.

Have to go otherwise would have replied slightly more long winded........

Notice how you forgot to mention in the same post he recommended other charities that they should go to and gave them priority mention, over that of his own. I hardly say mentioning "My Charity" in the actual context of the post you referred to could be classed as touting for buisness but simply as being nothing but informative of the help available to the poster.

End of the day i see no harm in Labman giving reference to his charity after all his charity does help people with debts does it not? And isn't the op seeking that same help, that Labmans charity can give them? Answer to both questions is a "Yes". So all i can say is those that take issue with him doing so are simply spiteful of the fact he has a charity where he is also advising people on such issued that the we all advise people on, on here.

So the questions is - Why have you all got an issue with him having a charity when hes doing the exact same thing as you are here e.g helping people, but via his own charity as well as on this site? In all honestly whatever the reason is, its childish and pathetic.

And am sorry Leclerc but the fact your keeping records of Labmans posts simply shows you as being vindicatory, in your way of trying to justifiy the bullying and spitefulness that has been show towards Labman.

On a side note:

Perhaps if others knew who was playing what parts behind the scenes against Labman, it would serve as a lesson to those responsible for the bullying campaign against Labman and his charity. As it would without doubt show those members in a completely different light, to what all members here currently see them in. Then that way everyone can give their opinion on the actions of those members - hmmm!

[labman]

Re: Discussion

Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd/Littlewoods/Very - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Post 4 I think on the thread when giving advice. When you say "my charity" that is how some would interpret touting for business. I am sure it was inintended but it is an interpretation that can be made in spite of saying other charities first.

Have to go otherwise would have replied slightly more long winded........

It could be, but I think only if one had a grudge or had had the charity highlighted to you for some reason previously.

At the end of the day, all those charities could help that poster and to me it matters not one jot whether they come to me or go to one of the others. What matters hugely to me, and I cannot stress quite how much, is that they get that help whether from me or elsewhere.

My charity will not be mentioned again in public on this site though unless it is the express wish of site admin that it is. I have no need to tout for business, I make no money from it, everything is funded from my own pocket - yes, literally everything. We do not fundraise because of this. Much of my disposable income goes into the charity - no I'm not a saint, we all give to charities, I just give to this one among others, - this is because past experiences have led me to believe extremely passionately in consumer rights and true justice for consumers.

Again, I suspect people have misunderstood this, and interpreted a refusal to accept donations as something it isn't. We don't accept donations as I fund everything, simple as, it's my little way of putting something back into the system. As we don't have a bank account, our bank balance is too low to need to be registered with the Charity Commission, so my charity will not be found anywhere unless someone actually tells you the name of this. Only four people on this entire site know the name (+ anyone who has been a client) but that is to protect my name and address, that is all. If I had a business address I would willingly publish the name of it.

So, hopefully the charity issue put to death as well. It would be good to get it all over with.

[Celestine]

Re: Discussion

Yes, if some of you here realised just how much I know about your antics to 'investigate' Labman, you'd be feeling a little uncomfortable right now.

To say there is some downright hypocrisy masquerading as neutrality is an understatement!

Good on you Labman for having the courage to stand up to petty, spiteful and very sad bullying......not difference of opinions or who is right/wrong.

I've made my intentions and thoughts CRYSTAL clear on this subject. If I see one single rumble on this topic again, I will act decisively because frankly it is well below the principle of what Legal Beagles is about.

A few nights ago I had a very scary experience with my baby's health, within minutes of posting asking for help, so many people rushed to offer support, advice and love.....that's what LB is about to me.

[teaboy2]

Re: Discussion

Yes, if some of you here realised just how much I know about your antics to 'investigate' Labman, you'd be feeling a little uncomfortable right now.

To say there is some downright hypocrisy masquerading as neutrality is an understatement!

Good on you Labman for having the courage to stand up to petty, spiteful and very sad bullying......not difference of opinions or who is right/wrong.

I've made my intentions and thoughts CRYSTAL clear on this subject. If I see one single rumble on this topic again, I will act decisively because frankly it is well below the principle of what Legal Beagles is about.

A few nights ago I had a very scary experience with my baby's health, within minutes of posting asking for help, so many people rushed to offer support, advice and love.....that's what LB is about to me.

Hi Celestine,

I hope your Babys is ok and it was nothing serious, i think i must have missed your post. But although its a little late and hopefully your baby is fine now, if you need anything just ask.

[labman]

Re: Discussion

Thank you. Matter closed - let's draw a line and start again.

[leclerc]

Re: Discussion

It could be, but I think only if one had a grudge or had had the charity highlighted to you for some reason previously.

On your signature at the time it said you ran a debt free charity. It was not the only post that made me uneasy when you used that signature. There was one other that I thought gave me some unease based on the idea of a conflict of interest. @teaboy, I did state that other charities were mentioned
At the end of the day, all those charities could help that poster and to me it matters not one jot whether they come to me or go to one of the others. What matters hugely to me, and I cannot stress quite how much, is that they get that help whether from me or elsewhere.

My charity will not be mentioned again in public on this site though unless it is the express wish of site admin that it is. I have no need to tout for business, I make no money from it, everything is funded from my own pocket - yes, literally everything. We do not fundraise because of this. Much of my disposable income goes into the charity - no I'm not a saint, we all give to charities, I just give to this one among others, - this is because past experiences have led me to believe extremely passionately in consumer rights and true justice for consumers.
I cannot see why it should not appear in the sidebar as other charities like Shelter do already since that clearly that is something that could be done, or that a stickie with all debt free charities is made that can include yours with others since there would be an easy reference to them for posters to use.
Again, I suspect people have misunderstood this, and interpreted a refusal to accept donations as something it isn't. We don't accept donations as I fund everything, simple as, it's my little way of putting something back into the system. As we don't have a bank account, our bank balance is too low to need to be registered with the Charity Commission, so my charity will not be found anywhere unless someone actually tells you the name of this. Only four people on this entire site know the name (+ anyone who has been a client) but that is to protect my name and address, that is all. If I had a business address I would willingly publish the name of it.

So, hopefully the charity issue put to death as well. It would be good to get it all over with.

I won't respond to what you have said Celestine for two reasons, 1) I don't agree with some of what you have said and 2) if there has been what you have suggested and bullying then site team have tools available to deal with that and may have failed to have used them sufficiently enough. I was not here last night so do what you have to do as I have responded on topic.