What good is the EU ?

[Sapphire]

Re: What good is the EU ?

I honestly don't know how you address this as it is so deep rooted in the community. Often it's not that the people won't work, it's that they'll claim benefits and then work illegally (it's called "hobbling" round here) to top up the benefit to a decent wage. Off the top of my head I could name 30-40 people in our village who live this way, and I'm an Englishman so will always be regarded as an outsider!

Thats disgusting, I've never been one to advocate 'grassing' but Casper its you're duty to report them, annonymously of course.

[Caspar]

Re: What good is the EU ?

Sapph,

I've been so irate about it myself I've reported people probably 15-20 times, giving names, addresses, descriptions, age, birthdays if known, what they're doing, what time they leave / return, who it's for.

What have the benefit theft line done with my valuable information?

Bugger all! How do you solve that one?

[Sapphire]

Re: What good is the EU ?

Hmmmmmmm I think copy and paste to a word document and save it then re-send it daily until they do something, mind you I think that they have to be very careful and collate all the evidence before they can go forwards, and also if there's that many people 'at it' then the investigators are probably flooded.
Hmmmmmmmm perhaps an anonymous tip off to the papers as well :grin: both local and national.

[Caspar]

Re: What good is the EU ?

That's what it needs. They know the benefit thieves and they know the employers who use them, but the red tape and bureaucracy is ridiculous and so time consuming it basically stops them doing their job properly.

A tip off to the press would be good, especially if it were to say a crackdown concentrating on the Rhondda Valleys and immediate surrounding villages where they have information much of this illegal activity is going on.

I agree it's disgusting, but as you say it's so ingrained the attitude round here is get your benefits and if you can get a £200 a week hobble on top that's good.

Simlarly I was living up in Yorkshire during the miners strikes in the 80's, and while there were without doubt some in dire need, there were also others who were doing bits on the side for people and doing very well out of it. It's not something new!

What I don't understand is why they don't go to the employers and say right, you need 30 people to run your business. According to your books you only employ 8, how do you manage and where's the paperwork to back up what you're saying? That would seem the easiest way for me - stop the employers doing it as they're scared of the penalties, rather than stop those on benefits robbing the system which is much harder to prove.

[The Debt Star]

Re: What good is the EU ?

Casper, the real cause for this problem is that Thatcher privatised the whole fooking lot and carpet baggers came along and looted the collieries before closing them down. same with steel. Same with ships. Whole generations of disinherited from their traditional sources of employment. No future, all ****ed up the wall by the Tories long ago. And not just them of course, we had 13 years of Bliar-Brown and a thriving economy ****ed up the wall in illegal wars and bank bail outs. That's where your anger needs to be directed - not at the poor sods who have become dependant on state benefits. They were and have always been used as scapegoats by the ruling elite for all the woes that have befallen us. No way, its time we woke up to the real problem - which is that we need to reform how this country is run and by whom and for whom it is governed.

[Caspar]

Re: What good is the EU ?

And therein lies another endless, but very intersting argument. Could it be as simple as PR?

[The Debt Star]

Re: What good is the EU ?

getting the fook out of Europe would be a good start imo as the whole EU seems to stand for corruption and unfettered capitalism.

Its not PR we're being offered for Westminster elections though. Its AV and I'm not too sure how that works as an alternative to both PR and First Past the Post.

Do you have PR or AV for the Welsh Assembly? How is that working out?

[Sapphire]

Re: What good is the EU ?

Oh this is a brilliant discussion and I thoroughly agree with DS, it is the fault of the various governments that people are suffering as they are, BUT the benefit fiddling problem has to be addressed and needs to be stopped. Great idea about getting the businesses to explain their methods too.
I also remember the miners strikes and all the crying and sobbing about how hard up they were, funny that because they were all sitting in pubs/clubs drinking and smoking at the time, wierd eh, I always thought that being skint meant not being able to afford such things.

[Caspar]

Re: What good is the EU ?

We have a thing called a Mixed Election System which is supposed to combone a proportional system and a single seat district system, supposedly comboning the best features of the two, and supposedly good for balancing local and national concerns. TBh I haven't noticed much difference to England, but then I'm not that into politics.

First Past the Post seems fairish, but I think problems are much more deep rooted than that in that once in the system, a lot seem to get "institutionalised" and lose their views of reality and how real people live.

That's why I say my brother, on his massively obscene salary, should be forced to swap places with me for a while to see what it's like having to rob Peter to pay Paul all the time to get by. He makes immensely important decisions and has little grasp of reality from what I see.

If you remember that fantastic programme "Yes Minister" (later "Yes, Prime Minister") I think there was probably a lot of truth in that.