General Election 2010 Thread

[natweststaffmember]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

Hung Parliament, pmsl!

[Smasher]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

Ok then..

[EXC]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

Look on the bright side.

[enaid]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

I really think you lot are out of order making a joke out of a very serious matter.
The fact Gordon interviewed a lady from the north with the intention of making him look good did go slightly pear shaped I will admit









maybe to make him look good he should have stood next to this lady from the east



The eyes have it for me :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[natweststaffmember]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

The struggle I have at the moment is that I simply can't vote Conservative. I was a child of the '80's, politicised in the '90's and so my choice is simple, LibDems or Labour. I don't believe in not voting but I don't agree fundamentally with the Conservatives policies on the EU. It is pick and choose policy like shopping in a supermarket.
Yesterday really was a storm in a teacup. Yes GB made off the cuff remarks but when it comes down to the basic fact of being in an election booth the choice is simply this: David Cameron, Nick Clegg or Gordon Brown.
I won't vote David Cameron, and I am leaning further away from Gordon Brown. Earlier in this thread I said I wouldn't vote LibDems but I am reconsidering this position and so we will see what happens tonight.

[Sapphire]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

I couldn't agree more with you Natts, I really feel exactly the same, now if only we had a party with a manifesto that includes the following:

Stop encouraging people not to work because they are better off on benefits.
Stop encouraging people to have kids because they can get a council flat and benefits for years to come.
Better tax benefits for those who do work.
Stop funding IVF treatment and use the money for research into Cancer and other horrid illnesses like dementia etc.
Sorry if that sounds horrid but I've got three girlfriends who have breast cancer, one is in private healthcare and is having all the best of treatment, of the other two (they are both under the same hospital) one is getting Herceptin and is doing fine and the last one can't get it and are having to remortgage to fund her treatment, all because the hospital say that they have run out of funds.

Terrible, just terrible.

Sorry for the rant but I have a mammogram booked for 5th May and knowing the scare I had last year its guaranteed I'll get called back again.

[Smasher]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

It seems a common thing for so many that we're not voting for who we want, just voting against whoever is the most rotten of 3 rotten eggs..

[WendyB]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

The way I see it, there will never be a party who's policies are 100% of what I want or agree with, so I just have to go with the one that comes the closest. And at the moment that is Conservative. I actually agree with his EU thoughts, - why shouldn't we be able to pick and choose which bits we like or want? Why should we, when Brussels says jump, have to say "how high?" As David Cameron said in last week's debate, Angela Merkl and Sarkozi are in Europe, but still stand up for their own indivdual countries. Why can't we do that too?

As for not being able to vote Conservative because you're a child of the 80's, well I'm a child of the 60's brought up in a working class labour stronghold. Labour party meetings in our front room and my dad a card carrying member. But I have formed my own views over the years, and voted Conservative in the last election and will probably do so in this one too. It took me a while, and even now I joke about the first time I actually meant to vote Tory in the local elections but when I got into the booth I just couldn't force myself to do it because of my strong Labour background.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

The way I see it, there will never be a party who's policies are 100% of what I want or agree with, so I just have to go with the one that comes the closest. And at the moment that is Conservative. I actually agree with his EU thoughts, - why shouldn't we be able to pick and choose which bits we like or want?
You are either in the EU or you aren't. My personal opinion is that sod the ifs and buts and have a referendum on the whole damn thing ie Should we be in the EU or OUT. LibDems are ones who would do this so we can have a proper discussion on the issues.
Why should we, when Brussels says jump, have to say "how high?"
WendyB, when have Brussels said "jump"?
As David Cameron said in last week's debate, Angela Merkl and Sarkozi are in Europe, but still stand up for their own indivdual countries. Why can't we do that too?
I would say, why do we not already do so....I have to give Margaret Thatcher her dues..she did opt out of the EURO which initially I thought was wrong. I now believe that this opt out from Maastricht was one that was very well negotiated.
As for not being able to vote Conservative because you're a child of the 80's, well I'm a child of the 60's brought up in a working class labour stronghold. Labour party meetings in our front room and my dad a card carrying member. But I have formed my own views over the years, and voted Conservative in the last election and will probably do so in this one too.
I was politicised, very much a Thatcherite, I guess we are similar in that regards, ie politicised in on doctrine and gone the other way because of that.
It took me a while, and even now I joke about the first time I actually meant to vote Tory in the local elections but when I got into the booth I just couldn't force myself to do it because of my strong Labour background.

I am not sure I have ever voted Conservative. I was a strong believer in Tony Blair and the war in Iraq as well. However, I am a realist in the sense that I believe Gordon Brown is a good politician but I don't believe that the manner in which he has expressed his views are strong enough for me. After 13 years of Labour government I do believe it is time for change but not conservative change but LibDem change. I do now believe that a hung parliament is a possibility.

[WendyB]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

I haven't deliberately gone the other way because I was politicised, more like gone the other way becuase the Labour party I originally believed in has changed beyond all recognition and I don't agree with their policies any more.

As for the "Jump, how high" well maybe that wasn't the best way of putting it, it's more like "well this is what Brussels/EU/whoever say we're supposed to do, so we'll just do it" No if's or buts, just do it. No argument, reasoning, compromise. That's where we should be in Europe and yet still standing up for ourselves.

My ideal party would

have immigration controls, not just let anyone from anywhere into our country.
improve our border controls
chuck out anyone who has overstayed
deport foreign criminals
get tough on crime, never mind a politically correct slap on the wrist
have a much stricter benefits system and not allow people to turn up in this country and immediately get benefits, a house etc etc
stop benefits/housing jamboree for teenage single parents
make skiving benefits scroungers work for their benefits, unless they are genuinely too ill or disabled to work.

It really bugs me that if I were to become unemployed now, JSA would depend on if I had paid enough contributions in the previous tax year, yet migrants, teenage single parents, and idle scroungers who have never worked a day in their life and contributed zilch still get benefits, housing, council tax rebates etc.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

I don't think asylum seekers do get benefits immediately they land on this isle. In fact, they cannot work either so even if they do want to contribute to our society, they are prevented from doing so.
Certain types of crime are going down albeit I believe gun related crime has gone up. The fear of crime is worse than the actual crime rate which is dropping apart from certain crimes.
housing now usually requires that the person lives within the area where there are parents. Furthermore, there is no automatic house if you are a teenage mother and AFAIK the only automatic benefit for a child is Child benefit(albeit the person's circumstances may mean income support, housing allowance, etc,etc,). Should we be putting teenage mothers on the streets?

I was one of those scroungers who got JSA plus Local Housing Allowance...if I didn't have the borrowing I had then it would have made it easier to stay jobless. The Job Centre cannot really help you until you have been 6 months out of work. If you want training a lot of grants by local governments have been slashed due to cost cutting measures.

I'm not saying that the impression that is given is as you have stated but I don't think that the reality is the same.

Link to UK Border Agency which gives details of benefits that cannot be claimed by asylum seekers:
UK Border Agency | Home Page

Statistics on UK Crime
National Statistics Online

Statistics on Teen pregnancy(albeit need figures on housing and teenage mothers)
Under-18 conception statistics 1998-2008 - Every Child Matters

[WendyB]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

Nattie you weren't a scrounger, you had paid in your contributions over the years. You were also actively trying to get a job. You weren't sitting on your arse doing sod all and expecting the state to keep you. I know someone (I'm sure we all do) who had been out of work for 15 years in the late 80's, and has not done a tap since then. he's now of retirement age and hasn't done a tap since about 1975!! Yet they have managed to have 4 kids, go on foreign holidays and run a car....

I wasn't referring just to asylum seekers, I meant anyone who turns up in this country with no visible means of support. And if they don't get benefits, then what are they living on....and where are they living? And who is paying for it?

No, I am not advocating that we put teenage mothers on the streets, nor am I advocating that we should go back to the 60's and the Magdalene Sisters. However I firmly believe that its all to easy now for young girls to get pregnant, there's no sense of right or wrong or shame (for want of a better word). Teenage pregnancy is just accepted as the norm, more often than not it follows from the last generation, then they get a flat, benefits etc etc, and so the cycle goes on. I beleive in America, the government gave 3 years notice of ending benefits for teenage mothers, and siad that in future they would not be given housing and benefits and their parents would be expected to support them and thier offspring.. Lo and behold, by the time the law actually came into effect, the teenage pregnancy rate had dropped drastically..Coincidence?? I don't think so...

Fear of crime is not worse than the actual crime rate, or if it is it's only because the crime rates have dropped (or the clear up rates have increased) mainly due to the downgrading of certain crimes, and/or the massaging of figures. And to be perfectly honest, gun related crime is a big worry, especially if you live in an area like Birmingham or some other city, this is where I feel it would be perfectly justified to be fearful of the crime, cos believe me when someone gets shot a few streets away it hardly makes you feel major safe.

[scoobydoo]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

I agree with sapphire and wendy B - IMO the way crimes have been reported has changed, many people dont even bother to report the crime in the first place.
Young mothers ARE getting accomodation - it may vary from area to area but they definitely are.
And no we dont want them out on the streets but if the parents have room than why should they not help out? why should my taxes pay for a 15 year old to be put into housing with a baby when she would probably be better off at home with family support - and yes in the USA they did give notice of withdrawing the benefits and the pregnancy rate in young married mothers dropped very quickly.

It is not easy being on benefits and no-one is saying it is - but if those who are riding the sytem were stopped then the really deserving cases will get MORE help.

What strikes me is that most of us want the same things and yet we really feel that we are not getting a voice or truthful answers. And yet in this age of electonic communication we should be an age where we could all have more of a say on matters.

Personnally I think the thing about the GB incident is that he was falling over himself to apologise to the lady - why? because we are in an election campaign - if he put his hands up and took some responsibility for the banking crisis ( and no I dont blame it all on him) Then the electorate may have had more respect for him.

On the whole we are a very tolerant society and also I think we all know from this forum when we make financial mistakes most of us are ashamed and admit responsibility - its a pity the present government dont seem to feel the same way.

[WendyB]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

Just an aside...does BIGOT stand for Brown Is Gone On Thursday?

I couldn't watch tonight's debate as I was at work, so haven't seen anything to change my mind one way or the other. Apart from the fact that Nick Clegg looks about 12 years old which hardly gives him much credibility IMO. As well as the fact that I can't get to grips with what his plans for leading the country are (or is that just me??) Might watch the re-run on News 24 in a while, but at the moment am watching Mock The Week which is far more entertaining, I should think.

For clarification, work is where I go because I am earning a living and supporting myself, paying my bills and my mortgage. I was brought up to believe that to better myself and get a decent standard of living, I went to work and earned money to do it. My mortgage is a necessity because I wanted to own my own house. (In fact, it started off as a necessity but now it's a millstone) For further clarification, work tonight was at my second job, which was originally to earn a bit extra for luxuries, but is now an absolute necessity because we couldn't manage without the extra money it brings in, not because we are suddenly spending more, because we're not, but because I haven't had a payrise in my fulltime job for 4 years, cost of living has risen, etc etc. And no, don't get the violins out, I don't expect sympathy, that's just the way it is. But maybe it might make my views on teenage mothers, sponging dole scroungers etc a bit more understandable, when I get home at 10pm on a Friday night having done a 55 hour week, and reflect on the fact that I don't actually have any benefits, no council tax allowance, can't afford a new pair of trainers, etc etc that I could perhaps be forgiven for thinking there's something wrong somewhere?

For the record, I have 2 kids. My son is 20,has worked since he was 13, left school with 10 A-C grades, hated 6th form, got himself a job, got promoted, lives with his girlfriend in a house that they are buying. He has never got a girl pregnant. My daughter is 17, has worked whenever she could whilst at school, got 11 A-C grades and has got herself an apprenticeship which will lead to a permanent admin job. She has never been pregnant and has no intention of becoming so in the foreseeable future. All this in what I believe is one of the most deprived towns/areas in the country. So just goes to show that it can be done, our kids are not paragons of virtue and we are not model parents, I'm just trying to illustrate that there are choices in life, and common sense and values, but unfortunately a lot of people seem to have forgotten what they are.

Rant over. In fact it wasn't meant as a rant anyway, more like a bit of a whinging ramble now I read it back to myself lol.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: General Election 2010 Thread

Whoever we vote for is going to cut jobs, raise taxes and things are unlikely to change. I did watch the leaders debate and I now know who I am going to vote for. One more week and we will see who holds the balance of power.