Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

[Nattie]

There has been chatter on CAG that if the OFT wins that there is an argument against charges re the European Charter of Human Rights.
How does this argument actually work with regards to if the bank start charging for bank accounts?

[scoobydoo]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

? no idea? We have to have some common sense in this . Banks are profit making organisations - and we all know they will make their profits one way or another . We just all want a system that is transparent and fair to all.

Ar they referring to the fact that you really have little choice but to have your monies paid into a bank account in the first place?

[Nattie]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

From my brief understanding then I believe it could be that you cannot force a consumer to subscribe to third party services.
"The Wages Act states that the employee no longer has the choice of how their money is paid. The ECHR Act states that no EC citizen can be forced to buy a third party product or service through local legislation.

Thus, every employee is effectively being forced to buy this 'service' from a bank through no choice of their own."
That is a quote from Dave, OFT thread

[scoobydoo]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

Right

I can see where that argument is coming from. In the old days when paid by cash my mum would dish out the weekly money into tobbaco tins - each for rent /food/ins etc.

She now hates having to have pension put into bank account /pin numbers and all that modern complication! But has no choice. And even though it is safer that having cash in the house - I suppose that freedom of choice has been eroded.

In those days if you did not have any money left - you had to last untill the next payday. But they never had any debt.

jan

[ed.]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

Interesting premise!

I said a long time ago the Gov would have to act on Bank Charges because effectively with the dumbing down of the Post Office etc everyone was forced to have a bank account whether they wanted one or not.

Nattie have you just found the next front of our battle?

[Nattie]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

No I am actually aware of the flaw in this argument. If the idea is that you are forced to pay for services then if the bank offers a basic basic account(yes I can give the example) which is free then this argument is surely beaten, would you not say?

[scoobydoo]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

yes might be free now - but will it be if the banks lose?

To a degree I can see both sides - because if you have money paid into bank account - you could still (in theory)go and draw all you cash out the next day - and pay all bills by cash- except the most convenient way to do that is through the Post office - and guess what they are closing them down !

Jan

[Nattie]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

That is where I am conjecturing, that the banks do lose and as has been suggested in the press they charge for a bank account and each bank has a basic basic account does that defeat the idea of buying third party services by force?

[Amethyst]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

Ahhhhhhh yes the Post Office

In my new found bankless life yeyyyyyyyyyy I go to the Post Office to cash giros and take my CTC out of my Post Office card account (which is a bit annoying cause you can take money out but cant put it back), and in the same shuffling of moneys I tried to pay bills, which had giro slips attached (water in this case) - so should be easy, money out to me n counter, money and slip back in on counter....but ohhhhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooo.....if I want to do that I have to pay an extra £2.45 per bill....or pick all my money up shuffle along to the other end of the shop (and some POs wont have one in which case I'd have to go to another shop) and pay my bills, along with my shopping (if I have any) in the shopping queue at a ''PayPoint'' which is free.

Small thing i know, but I hate fumbling about iwth money and bits of paper and on the PO counter at the same time I withdraw the money wuld be soooooooo much easier.

And re the ECHR v the wages Act - they will HAVE to offer a FREE no frills account at every bank solely to have wages paid into and withdrawn from. So yes it is irrelevant IMO.

[ed.]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

No because in this day and age technologically speaking a basic account should still include internet banking, DD's and SO's in my mind.

Not purely a cash account anymore. Society has moved on and basic bank account is no OD, no money off vouchers, no half price AA membership etc. Not no DD's and so on.

I see where you are coming from BUT but DD's, SO's and so on are required - to not include those when other companies charge premiums for payments in another way is reinforcing the penalty culture.

[Nattie]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

Then you have not heard of the NatWest Cash account that is exactly that, no DD's or SO'd permitted on the account, no cheque book and no overdraft. Cash Card only. They brought it out of the closet about a year ago but it is now a live account(do you think they may have an inkling of how the OFT test case could go?)

[Amethyst]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

That is very true - but how long will BT's £4.25 penalty for not paying by DD last ?

[Paule]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

The ECHR Act states that no EC citizen can be forced to buy a third party product or service through local legislation.
Thus, every employee is effectively being forced to buy this 'service' from a bank through no choice of their own."

Now, this can depend how you read and understand this.
You can look at it like
'you can chose ANY bank OR Building society for your wages' therefore a choice
'you can choose from a variety of accounts within the above' therefore even more choice

If wages could only be paid into a Barclays current account only, then you would have no choice.

Not sure if you understand my logic here, but its clear in my mind..lol

Also if you go through all the EC directives there's probably one for this situation anyway, and if not I bet they will pop one up soon enough.

PKea

[Nattie]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

The question is whether you would be forced to buy a product or rather services if the OFT wins the test case. SO, if all banks charges for all accounts then a challenge could be raised on the ECHR. is that where that idea has derived from?

[Paule]

Re: Conjecture as OFT test case ongoing: What if OFT wins?

No my thinking was along the lines of

WHAT is a product?
something produced; especially : commodity 1 (2): something (as a service) that is marketed or sold as a commodity b: something resulting from or necessarily following from a set of conditions <a product of his environment>

Is a bank account a product, or is it a general term for a group of specific items.

Nationwide Flex account could be a product, as it is a specific item

Bank Accounts, as a general, aren't marketed but a Halifax current account is.

Any clearer now, or shall i just go to bed?