HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

[Amethyst]

Claimant claiming approx £1900 in unlawful charges from HSBC. They continue to chase claimant for approx £520 outstanding overdraft despite acknowledging the account is in dispute and the claim for a refund of charges.

This is their most recent letter to the claimant.

[Curlyben]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

Well that needs to go to the FSA

[McHeist]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

Also a letter should be sent back to HSBC stating that any court action taken will be met by a counterclaim. They will back down as the amount owed is so much smaller than her claim against them. If it does go to court, it may be stayed but it is more likely that the judge will hear both claims and award the balance to her.

[EXC]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

I personally think it shoud go to the OFT too as regardless of the waiver conditions the bank is in breach of the OFT guidelines which state a bank shouldn't pursue a debt on a disputed account

I also think it should go to the BBC. Ame?

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

Oh indeedy.


Have made start on letter to respond to HSBC.

Dear Mr HSBC

I am rather surprised at the content of your letter dated XX/XX/XXXX in which you inform me you are aware my account is in dispute and that I am currently asking you for a refund of bank charges totalling £xxxxx yet you are ''under no obligation to withold any collections activity'' on my account.
You are fully aware that my complaint against you is for a refund of charges totalling £XXXX.00, and this far outweighs the current debit balance on my account of £XXX.00.

I am surprised you are unaware of the guidance issued by the Banking Code Standards Board, which states you should not chase payment on a disputed debt.

I am also surprised, being as you are involved in the current test case and are appealing to the House of Lords on the judgment, that you are unaware of the terms of the FSA Waiver.

15.When dealing with complainants in financial difficulty, the firm should consider the following steps in respect of the period during which they are assessed as being in financial difficulty:
(a)the firm might waive future unauthorised overdraft charges; and
(b)the firm might not enforce debts against complainants in financial difficulty to the extent that these debts are made up of unauthorised overdraft charges.


I would also like to make you aware of The Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance 664 in which it states: putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive. This includes ignoring disputes about whether money is owed and refusing to freeze action if the debt is in dispute.

I intend to submit a complaint to the FSA regarding your lack of consideration of the waiver terms. Please find a copy of this attached.

I therefore request you place the account on hold and cancel any further charges and interest from being applied to the account until you have satisfactorily resolved my complaint. Any further action you take on this account will be strongly contested.

I hope to receive your full co-operation in this matter and would like to request a written response to that effect by return.



Yours sincerely

need to do complaint to FSA and OFT to go with the letter Plus any input on this reponse welcome.

[WendyB]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

letter looks good to me Ame, I'd just change the wording slightly, as below.

I am also surprised, in view of HSBC's involvement the current test case and appeal to the House of Lords on the judgement, that you are unaware of the terms of the FSA Waiver.

[EXC]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

Oh indeedy.


Have made start on letter to respond to HSBC.




need to do complaint to FSA and OFT to go with the letter Plus any input on this reponse welcome.

I'd be tempted to put more emphasis on the OFT guidlines than the waiver. The waiver is a bit wooly and says ''might not'' but from memory the OFT guidlines say ''should not''.

In response to HSBC saying they believe the charges were applied correctly you might want to remind them that they are not the authority on the matter, that being the domain of the OFT who wrote to HSBC on 8 November to tell them that they had serious concerns about the lawfulness of them. Clearly HSBC are not confident the charges are lawful as they asked the OFT to participate in a test case to establish just that.

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

EXC you are an absolute star I will unashamedly plagurise you

[Curlyben]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

Worth adding:

ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are
disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is
queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued

not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or
disputed debt.

[enaid]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

Same as the lad with Natwest, just got another letter now 5th one telling me about FSA etc and yet another I & E sheet and asking why he can't meet his commitments.
They won't listen.

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

Okay was thinking 664 was for debts that have already been defaulted, but it can't hurt to add more weight.

[Curlyben]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

This is a debt

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

Dear Mr HSBC

I am rather surprised at the content of your letter dated XX/XX/XXXX in which you inform me you are aware my account is in dispute and that I am currently asking you for a refund of bank charges totalling £xxxxx yet you are ''under no obligation to withold any collections activity'' on my account.

You are fully aware that my complaint against you is for a refund of charges totalling £XXXX.00, and this far outweighs the current debit balance on my account of £XXX.00.

With regards to your comment that you believe the charges to be fair, I would like to remind you that you are not the authority on the matter, that being the domain of the OFT who wrote to HSBC on 8 November to tell you that they had serious concerns about the lawfulness of these charges. Clearly HSBC are not confident the charges are lawful as they have asked the OFT to participate in a test case to establish just that.

I am surprised you are unaware of the guidance issued by the Banking Code Standards Board, which states you should not chase payment on a disputed debt.

I am also surprised, in view of HSBC's involvement the current test case and appeal to the House of Lords on the judgement, that you are unaware of the terms of the FSA Waiver.

15.When dealing with complainants in financial difficulty, the firm should consider the following steps in respect of the period during which they are assessed as being in financial difficulty:
(a)the firm might waive future unauthorised overdraft charges; and
(b)the firm might not enforce debts against complainants in financial difficulty to the extent that these debts are made up of unauthorised overdraft charges.


I would also like to make you aware of The Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance 664 in which it states: putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive. This includes ignoring disputes about whether money is owed and refusing to freeze action if the debt is in dispute.
The following actions would be a breach of this guidance;
2.6h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment
2.8. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued
2.8k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.


I intend to submit a complaint to the OFT, and also the FSA regarding your lack of consideration of the waiver terms. Please find a copy of this attached.

I therefore request you place the account on hold and cancel any further charges and interest from being applied to the account until you have satisfactorily resolved my complaint. Any further action you take on this account will be strongly contested.

I hope to receive your full co-operation in this matter and would like to request a written response to that effect by 07 May 2009.



Yours sincerely

[Curlyben]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

Personally I would give them a solid time frame to respond in, say 14 days or by DATE.

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC defy Waiver (Adele v HSBC)

amended accordingly

anyone fancy knocking up the complaint to oft & fsa ?