Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I asked someone at FSI who said that either party can seek leave to appeal to the House of Lords at the hearing. The three judges can either grant leave to appeal then and there or if they refuse it the appellant can then seek leave to appeal directly to the House of Lords.

This seems to be why the Court of Appeal have given the parties 8 days to consider the verdict as the specific grounds for any appeal application would need careful consideration.

Finances allowing, I hope to attend. Also waiting for a decision as to whether or not I will have a passenger.

One word of warning is that the clerk said that in theory the hearing could last ''30 seconds'' if no Orders are made and no appeal is sought, though I suspect there will be.

Be great to see you and your passenger though. Tom's a cert so we could have a spot of lunch. I assume the ferret's not vegetarian? And you do realise it's a Thursday don't you?

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Knitting club may have be postponed for a week

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

My main concern was him showing up in that grubby denim skirt.

[stewie082]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I dont want to sound like the village idiot, but why is this only for Abbey?

What about the other 6 banks involved?

Stewie

[Paule]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I dont want to sound like the village idiot, but why is this only for Abbey?

What about the other 6 banks involved?

Stewie

Its for all the banks, they just abbrieviate the case name

ie OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Otrs = Others, hence all the other banks in the case

[stewie082]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Thanks for the reply!

Is this the news we have all been waiting for the last year and a half ? Since the test case started?

I thought everything was on hold for another 6 months or so? What are the implications of this Judgment?

Thanks again
Stewie (AKA Village Idiot!)

[Budgie]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I'll be there.

[Tools]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Stewie, if there are no further appeals on the day it will be to determine whether or not the OFT can assess the banks charges under the UTCCR 1999 regulations. If judgement is in favour of the OFT then there will still be a while to go before a fair charge level is set.

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

In an effort to dispel fears on other forums that should the OFT win the appeal, they will enter into a 'deal' with the banks similar to the £12 regulatory threshold for credit card defaults, it's worth remembering that the OFT knocked that little critter on the head when John Fingleton specifically ruled that out 2 years ago.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/news/press/2007/54-07

If the OFT wanted to go down that route there would be absolutelty no point in having a test case.

I get really browned off when people suggest otherwise..

[kev2b3]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

OFT wins the appeal would be great, they lose, would the OFT have the budget to appeal themselves.

[Amethyst]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

I don't think the OFT would appeal anyway, even if they did have the money, to be honest. However I think the likelihood of the Banks overturning fully the original judgment is extremely slim, so I doubt it will come into question. But i tend to be a tad optimistic. I do think though theres a long way to go yet before a full conclusion.

[brown1950]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

In an effort to dispel fears on other forums that should the OFT win the appeal, they will enter into a 'deal' with the banks similar to the £12 regulatory threshold for credit card defaults, it's worth remembering that the OFT knocked that little critter on the head when John Fingleton specifically ruled that out 2 years ago.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/news/press/2007/54-07

If the OFT wanted to go down that route there would be absolutelty no point in having a test case.

I get really browned off when people suggest otherwise..

Very subtle however i still think a deal will be done !

[Budgie]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

LOL !

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Very subtle however i still think a deal will be done !

Let's not get confused with a credit card type deal and an eventual charge cap based on law.

The OFT have said that the banks have a right to charge something for some types of insufficient fund items so it's inevitable that a figure will have to be decided. The difference is that the credit card theshold is simply a trigger for the OFT to launch an investigation and in the case of bank charges an investigation is already well underway.

And of course we now know that prior to announcing the credit card threshold the OFT only ever saw it as a temporary measure, which one could rightly describe as a short term 'deal'.

''The Board was advised that the OFT will be publishing a statement on default
charges by the end of March, proposing a threshold. Although this approach is
not seen as a permanent or ideal solution (expected to last around 3 years), it

should improve the working of the market.''

[EXC]

Re: Appeal Judgment - 26th February 2009 - OFT v Abbey National Plc & Otrs

Hi Nick

Sorry it's taken a couple of weeks to get back to you on this.

Although you did not specifically request that we treat this as an information request under the FOIA, we have considered it as one because our policy is to consider requests for information in line with our obligations under FOIA. I had to seek legal advice and am aiming to get a response to you early next week.
I trust my colleague Sadrul came back to you on the market study query?
Regards,
Kate

----- Original Message -----
From: EXC
To: Kate Farrow
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Market Study and Letter


Hi Kate

Ok many thanks for that.

I'm afraid I've not heard anything from Sadrul regarding the Market Study.

Regards

Nick

I'm not going to be too happy if we don't get confirmation from them that they believe the charges to be unfair - at least from the standpoint of their preliminary findings.

Not that I have any doubt they've found them to be unfair, as the leaked bank memo stated ''The OFT have written to us to say they have serious concerns that the terms may be unfair'' and also the appeal hearing transcript where Lawrence Rabinowitz told the court that ''The OFT have written to the banks to tell them the charges are unfair.

It would be ironic for consumers having to rely on the banks to find out that their charges are unfair while the OFT - the authority on the matter - don't feel it necessary for consumers to know.