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OFT says bank charges are unfair

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  • OFT says bank charges are unfair

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7587840.stm





    OFT says bank charges are unfair


    Mr Justice Andrew Smith will soon deliver further rulings on bank charges


    The main UK banks have been told by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) that their overdraft charges are probably unfair.









    The OFT's view is revealed in a confidential memo circulated among senior staff at RBS/NatWest.

    The regulator tells RBS it has "serious concerns" that its overdraft terms might be unfair to its customers.

    In April the High Court, in the first of a series of legal rulings, that the OFT had the right to scrutinise the fairness of the banks' current charges.

    In one of the biggest consumer revolts of modern times, hundreds of thousands of cases were lodged by aggrieved bank customers in county courts up and down the country, and with the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS), in the course of 2006 and 2007.

    The customers complained they had unfairly been overcharged hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of pounds when falling into the red.
    "Serious concerns"
    The OFT wrote in the middle of August to all the banks whose terms and conditions it had been scrutinising.

    It has told RBS that it has "serious concerns" that the terms may be unfair


    RBS internal memo


    At that stage all it would say in public was that "at this stage, no bank's terms have been given a clean bill of health and all banks remain under investigation."

    "The purpose of the letters is to start a dialogue with each bank to enable us to reach final conclusions as to whether the terms are unfair, and to identify which issues may need to be resolved in court proceedings," the OFT said at the time.

    The leaked RBS/NatWest memo makes it clear what the OFT really thinks.
    ''The OFT has written to the test case banks with its preliminary views on the fairness of administration charges terms," says the memo.
    "It has told RBS that it has "serious concerns" that the terms may be unfair.
    The memo states that "RBS is considering its response. This is a key step towards phase 2 of the test case, which is not due to start until early 2009''.

    Nick Spooner, of the campaigning website Legal Beagles, said the OFT's view was inevitable.

    "The OFT would not have spent all this time investigating the issue if it did not believe the charges were unfair," he said.

    "But I believe the OFT should now make public the fact it thinks the charges are indeed unfair," he added.

    Many hearings to come
    The OFT has been investigating the fairness of these controversial bank charges since April 2006.


    But the growing deluge of court cases led, in July 2007, to the banking industry coming to a deal with the OFT, FOS and the Financial Services Authority (FSA).

    All current and new bank charge cases would be put on hold until the underlying legal issues had been thrashed out in the courts.
    That eventually led to the OFT's initial High Court victory in April.

    But in an increasingly complicated set of litigation, there are at least four more High Court decisions to come, with more if there are any appeals.
    • this autumn Mr Justice Andrew Smith will rule if the OFT can also scrutinise the fairness of the historic terms formerly used by banks for their overdraft charges in the past
    • he will also rule if any historic bank terms are unfair penalties under common law, as well as potentially under the 1999 Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations
    • in October there will be an appeal by the banks against the OFT's initial High Court victory in April
    • and in late 2008/early 2009, a High Court hearing is expected to start on the substantive issue of whether or not bank overdraft charges are unfair - in effect a challenge by the banks to an anticipated adverse ruling by the OFT.

    Ray Cox, a leading banking QC, said: "If this opinion of the OFT is confirmed with regard to the current charging structure, it is difficult to see how the banks will be able to have a system resembling their current overdraft charges at all."

    After a parallel investigation into the operation of bank current accounts generally, also launched in April 2006 , the OFT concluded last month that they were "not working well for consumers". It pointed out that overdraft charges generated an income of £2.6bn a year for UK banks, and that much of this money was "derived opaquely" from customers.

  • #2
    Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

    Fabulous - this is the memo

    RBS - 15th August - leaked directives and unfair terms - Legal Beagles


    oh and

    Nick Spooner, of the campaigning website Legal Beagles, said the OFT's view was inevitable.

    "But I believe the OFT should now make public the fact it thinks the charges are indeed unfair," he added.

    Hear hear
    Last edited by Amethyst; 29th August 2008, 16:21:PM.
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    • #3
      Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

      Originally posted by EXC View Post
      Ray Cox, a leading banking QC, said: "If this opinion of the OFT is confirmed with regard to the current charging structure, it is difficult to see how the banks will be able to have a system resembling their current overdraft charges at all."
      Isn't he confused about what is now "current" given that Barclays, for example, have changed their charging system significantly since the test case hearings?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

        I don't know about that Arg but I'm not entirely sure how he gained the title of 'leading banking QC'.
        Last edited by EXC; 30th August 2008, 18:19:PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

          Is he just some randomer that the papers managed to get to comment, then, EXC?

          BTW I am a bit suprised by the amount you are trying to make out of the OFT telling one bank that their conditions may be unfair. It's a bit like the Vatican writing to someone saying that they believe the Pope is a catholic - they would say that, wouldn't they? The alternative is to admit that the whole of the last few years of pain have been for naught.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

            lol keeps peoples hope for some sort of resolution alive argie.

            And its not a given that the terms are considered unfair. The OFT have only said they have written to the banks and no one has been given a clean bill of health, so its quite nice to know for sure RBS's are unfair at least to a 'serious concerns' level.

            Ray Cox works for Fountain chambers and is pretty top of the game - think he assisted CAG with the Hull cases. Theres a profile of him in the whos who sticky in this forum.
            #staysafestayhome

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            • #7
              Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

              What I meant was that OFT wouldn't have started the whole process, if they hadn't believed that the banks' charges (and I mean all of the banks) were unfair. So writing to one particular one, saying the same thing, is scarcely earth-shattering.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

                aye we know but it is at least something concrete isnt it. Everything is subject to appeals etc etc so any firm news in either direction/favour has got to be good for the consumers who are stuck in the waiver and still being 'wallopped', to quote Justice Smith, daily.
                #staysafestayhome

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                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

                  I know you think I'm just being a wet blanket, but it's not news. It's not a movement in their position. It's just reiterating the same thing. More relevant would be "secret" news that they'd written to one of the banks saying "You know what, we've realised we were wrong and your conditions are fair". THAT would be a development (meaning a change, not meaning good or bad).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

                    I know and i agree with you, all I am saying is that it's something, where there are secret meetings going off and paranoia about deals going on behind the consumers backs, to get SOMETHING concrete out to the consumer has to be worthwhile.

                    That Ian Pollock picked up on this from reading it on here and decided to make a story out of it was as much as suprise to me as anyone.

                    We hadnt made a particularly big deal of the document, and it was hidden away in VIP from the 19th August until Friday.


                    Maybe a story about the banks asking to extend the waiver....it won't be NEWS as such but it will interest the consumers who are stuck in it that the banks envisage the waiver to be needed past January when the appeals are being heard in October/November.

                    That make sense ? Something is better than nothing.
                    Last edited by Amethyst; 31st August 2008, 16:23:PM.
                    #staysafestayhome

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                    • #11
                      Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

                      Originally posted by argentarius View Post
                      Is he just some randomer that the papers managed to get to comment, then, EXC?

                      BTW I am a bit suprised by the amount you are trying to make out of the OFT telling one bank that their conditions may be unfair. It's a bit like the Vatican writing to someone saying that they believe the Pope is a catholic - they would say that, wouldn't they? The alternative is to admit that the whole of the last few years of pain have been for naught.
                      Bit of a touchy subject that one Arg!

                      On the matter of the OFT's view on the fairness of RBS's charges, I think the significance is that we are now in a position where we know for certain that the OFT, an authority, believes the charges are unfair under UTCCR and have told at least one bank as much but will not disclose this to the public that it represents. At the same time RBS continues to take legal action against it's customers to recover these charges. By any standards this is not an equitable arrangement.

                      Also, there is a legal school of thought that suggests that a claimant could seek an interim injunction against the bank on further charges based on the OFT's view on them.
                      Last edited by EXC; 31st August 2008, 16:40:PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

                        I know what you mean, but didn't OFT think exactly the same 2 years ago?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

                          Yes but they havent suddenly started thinking the terms are fair as the banks are arguing ... so thats got to be a good thing.
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                          Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

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                          • #14
                            Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

                            Not that we really needed further indications that the OFT has told all the test case banks that their charges are unfair but the 2 articles below, though on the face it based on the OFT's current updated Q&As, were in fact the result of a press release the OFT gave exclusively to the Bloomberg news agency, according to BBC's Ian Pollock.



                            http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aY8NnPurYELM



                            http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=af1dKnJskfaY (About half way down the page)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: OFT says bank charges are unfair

                              Quote in Bloomberg, and FT

                              ``No bank's terms have been given a clean bill of health and all banks remain under investigation,'' OFT spokeswoman Corinne Gladstone said.
                              Quote from Q&A

                              At this stage, no bank's terms have been given a clean bill of health and all banks remain under investigation.
                              Media enquiries

                              Corinne Gladstone 020 7211 8899
                              corinne.gladstone
                              @oft.gsi.gov.uk





                              Not that it matters but I don't think anything other than the Q&A's has been bandied about other than the RBS and internal docs from other banks.
                              #staysafestayhome

                              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                              Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                              Comment

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