Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

[Snooki64]

Hi everyone, I am new to this site but am desperate for some help? To cut a long story short, my daughter has mental health problems and I am her appointee/mother.
Around 18 months ago a Bailiff company came and took my daughters car for a couple of unpaid parking fines, at the time she was needing the car to go to counselling for her mental health she has a childhood/adult history of mental health issues, I have been through all stages of complaint with the council and is now with the ombudsman, I have received a draft decision which is not in our favour but I feel all of my daughters mental health issues were not addressed or evidence was not asked for? I was told that the ombudsman would ask the council for copies of their evidence of my daughters health? I really feel very strongly that my daughter has been treated badly and I am so confused at where I go now? I do not want to let this go as this should not be allowed to happen? My daughter is on Personal independence payments and esa as she cannot work due to her health, she is 25 and does not live a normal life for someone of her age! The council have said she could pay in installments but the installments were very high considering she is on government benefits. I would really love to take them to court, but I do not know how to go about any of this now, and I feel she deserves compensation for further aggravating her condition, not being able to go to counselling without a car etc. I've been in contact with the advice bureau and they seem to think that the Ombudsman has given her opinion and I cannot do anymore? Please could someone advise me as this has made me I'll as well trying to deal with the situation. Thank-you everyone for reading.

[stevemLS]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

Hi and welcome

In order to take your council to court you would have to identify a "cause of action" and I am afraid from the facts you describe I can't see one.

The LGO looks at what is "fair" rather than the letter of the law and as a consequence can sometimes find in favour of the complainant where there is no evidence that the authority has not behaved unlawfully.

That neither the CAB nor the LGO think there is anything that can be done should be a pretty powerful indicator for you.

[Snooki64]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

Hi and thanks for the reply but I am not legally trained and this is all very confusing for me.
I'm sorry but I have been through the advice bureau telling there is no hope concerning a previous situation, until somebody in charge from the advice contacted me, we went on to win our case etc . the Lgo has only made a draft decision? Could you not give me some advice on how I proceed with this and what to do if I feel the Lgo has not been fair or gathered proper evidence? I'm really sorry but I have been unfairly treated by tribunals in the past and I do not believe that because they have good job titles they are always correct? They also can make mistakes? Thank-you for your time.

[R0b]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

If you want to bring a claim in court, what Steve means by a cause of action is that the authority has done something in breach of the law. For example, if the authority has been negligent or if they are in breach of human rights or breach of contract etc. Those are what you call a cause of action.

from the brief facts given, your daughter has failed to pay a few parking tickets, as a result the authority has taken steps and measures to recover their costs. I am no expert on bailiff law so i can't comment but I appreciate your daughter has had a history of illness however and while I suspect the courts may have a little bit of sympathy for you, if the council have acted reasonably then it will be upheld.

Might i ask in what way has the council treated your daughter unfairly? If someone owe's a debt to another person, they will have a right to enforce that debt subject to anything else. If someone has an illness of stress, anxiety or for whatever reason, it doesn't excuse them from paying the debt off albeit the person owed the debt may take it into account when considering their options.

[stevemLS]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

The purpose of the LGO sending you the draft decision is to give you opportunity to comment on it. If you think they have got it wrong, for example, by failing to take into account a material fact or for giving it insufficient weight, you can say so.

In my experience, though, amendments rarely change the outcome.

That your daughter was unable to attend counselling appointments without a car is obviously unfortunate but, frankly, is not relevant to how the council or their enforcement agents/bailiffs, sorry.

[Snooki64]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

My daughter is a vulnerable person, needing the car for medical reasons, the car was clamped and I was told by police that I should not tamper with the clamp? I was told that this is NOT correct? There really is lots and lots of negligent reasons why I feel this to be unfair! I don't know if I'm not explaining myself clearly but I am not talking about the debt, (pcn) nobody has ever denied oweing it or paying it. A vulnerable person is someone with mental/ physical health problems , and tell me I'm wrong but these situations are supposed to be dealt with accordingly? Meaning this is negligent and unfair? I am asking for advice here as I am not a solicitor, is this forum just for legally trained people? You are treating me like i know the law inside and out, this is the reason i am on here, So far I'm being told I dnt have a leg to stand on? I do not accept that there are several organisations involve in thizs case who have all acted negligently, giving me wrong information and not following correct procedures, ie 7 days notice of taking goods into control!! If I paid to take someone to court privately do the same rules apply? I feel I could prove negligence anyway. Thanks. Are organisations in this country allowed to treat people unfairly and inappropriately? What is considered to be negligent??. The doctor has referred my daughter for help with her mental health. I am also a blue badge holder and I know they can not legally take my car if I need it for hospital or doctors appointments, am I wrong about this too? The doctor has also supported my daughter with letters to the council, saying she may not always be aware of what the consequences may be, and her health may affect her everyday living? Are you really saying I cannot do a thing and they have acted correctly?

[Snooki64]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

My daughter mental health is not unfortunate its detrimental to her health is she cannot go to her appointments, they have lied and said they were unaware of the situation and I intend to prove them wrong. I haven't been fighting for this for 18 months, because I believe. Ido not have a strong case. I will keep everybody posted of my progress as I know this is unfair! Especially the people who have commented so far.

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

Hi .... just my thoughts on this one. I retired after 23 years as a local government enforcement officer and although I held a certificated bailiffs licence for that time, I only used it for the recovery of local taxation debts. However, I would have thought that for bailiffs to remove a vehicle that belongs to someone who is stated to be vulnerable and having mental health problems is wrong in spirit and I know that the council I worked for would have fully endorsed that comment. However, I was employed by the local authority unlike this case where they appear to have used external private bailiffs who appear to have acted without thought and consideration. I am afraid that any decision 'at the front door' is not always made appropriately.

I agree that while the local authority has behaved unlawfully, there must be argument to support that no account was taken of the vulnerability of the debtor. For example, I would have not been allowed to discuss a court order or action it in the presence of children only and, with all due respect, you could compare a child's ability to engage with that of a mentally challenged person. However, without knowing the full extent of your daughter's mental condition, it is hard to comment. I cannot imagine that any bailiff would reasonably remove goods where the debtor was not able to fully understand the situation and that appears to be the point where this whole thing went wrong.

[stevemLS]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

Can you prove that the council were firstly aware of her mental health condition and secondly that depriving her of her car may cause a deterioration in that condition.

It is said that mental illness is far more prevalent than is recognised, not everyone with a mental health condition will be "vulnerable".

As I understand it it is right to say that you cannot interfere with a lawfully applied clamp and I believe that is regarded as criminal damage.

On the facts so far, there is nothing to suggest that OP's daughter did not understand what was going on. If their mental health condition was so serious, would they actually be able to drive a car?

[Kati]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

My daughter is a vulnerable person, needing the car for medical reasons, the car was clamped and I was told by police that I should not tamper with the clamp? I was told that this is NOT correct?

you shouldn't tamper with a clamp ... you might get charged by the police if you do

There really is lots and lots of negligent reasons why I feel this to be unfair! I don't know if I'm not explaining myself clearly but I am not talking about the debt, (pcn) nobody has ever denied oweing it or paying it.

did you appeal the pcn?

A vulnerable person is someone with mental/ physical health problems , and tell me I'm wrong but these situations are supposed to be dealt with accordingly? Meaning this is negligent and unfair?

have you followed the company complaints procedure? given them proof of the vulnerability?

I am asking for advice here as I am not a solicitor, is this forum just for legally trained people? You are treating me like i know the law inside and out, this is the reason i am on here,

Everyone here on LB is a volunteer ... giving advice when they have dealt with a certain situation themselves. There are some who are qualified lawyers/solicitors, but the majority are regular 'Joe Bloggs' ty[pes offering their help

no-one's suggesting you are a legal know-it-all ... they're just asking questions to ascertain the facts

So far I'm being told I dnt have a leg to stand on? I do not accept that there are several organisations involve in thizs case who have all acted negligently, giving me wrong information and not following correct procedures, ie 7 days notice of taking goods into control!

did your daughter not get this?

]Are organisations in this country allowed to treat people unfairly and inappropriately? What is considered to be negligent??.

nope ... that's why the regulations are in place

The doctor has referred my daughter for help with her mental health.

Good ... would he write a supporting letter?

I am also a blue badge holder and I know they can not legally take my car if I need it for hospital or doctors appointments, am I wrong about this too?

no

The doctor has also supported my daughter with letters to the council, saying she may not always be aware of what the consequences may be, and her health may affect her everyday living?

Are you really saying I cannot do a thing and they have acted correctly?

have these been forwarded to the bailiff??

While I can understand your frustration, I do feel you are being a little unfair :sad: ... Everyone on here is a volunteer who gives their time and advice with no guarantee or praise. We'll help if we can, but we need to ask questions to ascertain the facts!

That being said ... @Milo might be able to help (I've tagged her) xx

[R0b]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

Completely agree with [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] we are not all areas of law and your issue appears to relate to the laws of bailiffs of what they can and can't do and I have very little knowledge in this but I may be able to give some interpretation on the legal side.

Citizens advice does a good piece on bailiffs and vulnerable people.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/de...t-by-bailiffs/

So it seems they may not have acted accordingly however I am not able to understand whether they have or haven't based in what you have said so far. If they have acted in the wrong way then you could go to court and have an order to remove the clamp and pay compensation.

We need clear facts of the story on how this happened, not opinions of what you think is unfair as that's now how the law works.

So far we have established:
1. Your daughter failed to pay PCNs
2. Bailiffs clamped your car (on instructions from the council?)
3. You have complained and now received a verdict from the ombudsman - can you upload a copy of this on here with personal details redacted? Also it would be useful to know the reasons of the council for refusing to do anything.
4. It would be helpful if you could expand a bit more on the bailiffs and how the came about clamping the car. Any notice received? Did they knock on your door? Have you asked them to remove the clamp and if so what was their response?
5. You've bounced the word negligent about a few times but I don't think you've fully explained why you think they are negligent. What has the council done in your eyes that you think is negligent?

There are always two sides to a story and its a lot more difficult to help out when we only have half the information. If you could answer anything not already answered above in addition to Kati's questions we can try and formulate some response.

[oldbadger]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

........................................ The doctor has referred my daughter for help with her mental health. I am also a blue badge holder and I know they can not legally take my car if I need it for hospital or doctors appointments, am I wrong about this too? The doctor has also supported my daughter with letters to the council, saying she may not always be aware of what the consequences may be, and her health may affect her everyday living? Are you really saying I cannot do a thing and they have acted correctly?

Hello Snooki64.
If I have any useful knowledge it is only about retail and shopping incidents, but I was interested in your struggle and thus read all of your posts.
As I read about your daughter's difficulties I became more and more worried as I read, again and again, that your daughter is 'not always aware' etc etc...... ?
If you did manage to bring a case to court against any of the authorities that you are in contention with, then eventually a Judge would be scrutinising all aspects of the case, and if s/he repeatedly reads about how your daughter cannot cope, about her mental health issues, etc, CORROBORATED by doctors, then s/he might ask the question 'should this person be driving vehicles on public roads?'

As a layperson who knows nothing about such cases, I would not want to focus any Judge's attention upon a loved one of mine if they were mentally ill and relied upon their car as much as your daughter does.

Have you thought about this angle?

Please don't be offended........... I'm no expert about anything.

[Snooki64]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

Hi everybody thanks for all your replies, I am just so tired of trying to explain this situation to numerous ppl over the last 18 months and trying to get some help and advice. I will try to upload the ombudsman draft decision? I only have until the 24th November to reply with my comments and reasons why I think the decision is wrong, I just dnt know where to start? This is all not good for my health either, I have medical problems also.
When my daughter had her car taken away it left her with little hope of improvement of her mental health, she was off work sick at the time (Long term), if she had any hope of living a normal life is going bk to work, and going out shopping without my help etc, it was taken away when they took her independence ( the car) she has social problems and cannot travel on public transport easily with lots of different people, she couldn't go to school easily when she was younger and needed to go to a special school as the whole( lots of people) situation is very stressful to her. She is now 25 and suffers very low esteem does not go out without me and does not live a normal life for a 25 year old, she has no social life due to all her anxieties, we are now waiting for her referall to yet another psychiatrist/psychologist which has been another massive fight for me to get her seen by the right ppl. I feel that I constantly trying to make ppl realise her problems, as she just looks NORMAL?? I am so totally exhausted. This is why I feel the BAILIFFS and local authority have not given proper consideration to the situation and have been negligent! Please tell me someone can see my point? Thank you.

[R0b]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

Snooki I do see where you are coming from but there is still some unanswered questions in red below that we need to know.

3. You have complained and now received a verdict from the ombudsman - can you upload a copy of this on here with personal details redacted? Also it would be useful to know the reasons of the council for refusing to do anything.
4. It would be helpful if you could expand a bit more on the bailiffs and how the came about clamping the car. Any notice received? Did they knock on your door? Have you asked them to remove the clamp and if so what was their response?

I have a busy day but I shall try to respond and I'm sure the others will give their opinion - 24 November to submit a response should be plenty of time providing you are able to give us all the information we need.

[wales01man]

Re: Need to sue my local authority for various reasons???

Were the Council and Bailiffs given proof of her condition ,if not they have a very good defence against that aspect of their actions which should have been different,

Was the blue badge in the car when it was clamped if not not much hope there after all anyone could say they have a blue badge it must be on view just as it must be when used for parking.

Until other complaints procedures are completed no use taking court action,

All of us on here support you but if this ends up before a Judge and they defend your daughter will be subject to scrutiny every thing about her will be used in their defence not an easy ride think hard and get plenty of advice before your next step.

Above all care for your daughter the council and bailiffs will go away she will not