Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

[Charlie505]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Celestine

This is one of those dreadful situations that make us instinctively take the side of the family in need. But as soon as we think that web campaigns should prevail over due process we are in a bad place for everyone.

The Financial Ombudsman Service will look at this and decide whether the insurer is right or wrong. If Friends Life are wrong they will pay. If they are right then attempting to get them to act against the interests of all other policyholders by incorrectly paying a claim is not a good thing to be doing.

This 'pins and needles' thing is no small matter. It is a classic symptom of MS and cover would not have been offered by any insurer until it had been investigated and given the all clear. Alegedly Mr Hughes was asked a straight question about it and did not answer it truthfully - that means that the contract was voidable.

There is much anger about this but it will not be the case that Friends are sticking to their guns to save money - it will not be a material amount for them. What would be very material is the principle that they must not pay out where a contract has not been entered into truthfully. It is in the interests of every consumer that this principle is upheld.

Sometimes people make mistakes on forms - and this is recognised by the Consumer Insurance Act which takes effect next year. It means people will not be required to provide information on the basis of what might be considered reasonable - but they will have to answer straight questions correctly. Naturally it will mean insurers asking a lot more striaght questions and the forms will get longer. However even under this new Act, if you are asked whether you have consulted a doctor about 'pins and needles' and you don't answer truthfully, the contract will be voidable.

I have been a life underwriter in my time (though a long time ago) - and I have also applied to a life company myself with 'pins and needles'. I declared the symptoms, the investigations and the diagnosis, and I got cover with my particular condition (quite fairly) excluded. I am confident that were I now to die of a different condition my insurer would pay out. Contrary to popular belief - it is rare for a life insurance claim to be declined.

None of this should be taken as being unsympathetic to Mr Hughes's family; all our hearts go out to them. But if the concern of those 50,000 people who have signed the petition is genuinely for the financial welfare of the family, rather than to join the heady ranks of a consumer protest then the solution is an easy one. If they all send Mr Hughes's family a very modest cheque, their financial worries will be resolved. If the Ombudsman then finds against Friends Life then the family will get its deserved payout from them and can forward the donations to a charity of their choice. And if the Ombudsman says that Friends Life are acting correctly, Mr Hughes's family will have the money they need anyway.

We would all like to see Mr Hughes's family looked after in their hour of need - but not at the expense of undermining the mechanism that millions of people rely on to provide themselves with financial peace of mind.

Petitioning Andy Briggs



Friends Life (@FriendsLifeTalk): Pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy #NicsFight



Petition by
Kester Brewin
London, United Kingdom







Nic was my best friend. He was a hugely talented guy, a fantastic dad and a loving husband. Nic died of cancer in October aged just 44 years old.
Instead of focusing on his family in his last few months of life, he was forced to spend it battling his life insurance firm Friends Life over his critical illness policy. Despite declaring all previous illnesses, conditions Friends Life cancelled his policy. Nic was convinced that he had given them full disclosure and that when they offered him the policy, they had done their checks. To put it simply, he died of cancer, but they refused to pay over pins and needles. His consultant is outraged at the way Friends Life have treated Nic, and has written to Friends Life, saying: "I think it cruel and highly distasteful that two irrelevant details from his medical history have been used as some sort of pretext to deny him a payment on his critical illness policy."
This has left his wife and kids inheriting a needless battle. Nic was unsure of how this battle would turn out - but I want to try and win it in his memory.
That’s why I’ve started a petition on Change.org demanding that Friends Life pay Nic’s family the money they are owed.
This petition won’t bring Nic back. But it could make a real difference to his family’s future. Please join me in telling Friends Life to do the right thing.
You can read more about this case here in The Observer . The Daily Mail have covered it too.
Stephen Fry, Russell Brand, Margaret Atwood, Miranda Hart, Ian Botham and Boy George, Alistair Campbell and Kirsty Gallacher have all tweeted about it too, as have many many others, reaching 10's of millions of followers.
Please sign to help change minds - people not profits. You can like our page on Facebook to get more updates, and find actions you can take on our website.
Thank you so much.







Thank you for your support so far - almost 50,000 signatures in five days is incredible and Nic's family has been blown away by the support they've received.
In this season of goodwill we want to keep running a positive and hopeful campaign.
Some of Nic's friends have designed a Christmas card for you to send to Friends Life, reminding them of their roots as a company founded to help the bereaved family of a teacher*.
Please send this card to Friends Life and ask them to do the right thing this Christmas.
You can download the card here and then;

• Email the card to them
• Share it on Twitter
• Or even better send it in the post -- Royal Mail can't be filtered by IT departments!

Over the weekend the pressure has been building as more celebrities have announced their support and the media have been picking up on how fast the campaign has grown including in The Observer and Daily Mail.
Nic's family have invited the CEO to meet and discuss ending this dispute now without the need for further protracted legal processes. But Friends Life seem intent on prolonging the family's uncertainty.
We want Friends Life to remember their roots and do the right thing by responding to this invitation and bringing a resolution before Christmas.
Please send Friends Life this Christmas card and urge them to do the right thing for the Hughes family.
Thank you,
Kester
PS. Once you've sent the Christmas card, you can find more ways to help the #NicsFight campaign here.
PPS. If this story has made you think again about your Friends Life policy please let me know by emailing nicsfight@gmail.com or posting on our Facebook page.
*Friends Life was founded in 1832 by Quakers who wanted to help the family of a teacher who had died -- yet 180 years on they are refusing to support the bereaved family of Nic, who was a teacher himself.[/QUOTE]

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

The fact remains, he paid in to support his family, and they are refusing a payout.

why should the consumer pay out for a life insurance policy that was paid up to date?

personally I applaud the people that sign this petition, the sooner his family get their payment, the better!

[Charlie505]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

The fact remains, he paid in to support his family, and they are refusing a payout.

why should the consumer pay out for a life insurance policy that was paid up to date?

personally I applaud the people that sign this petition, the sooner his family get their payment, the better!

I have no doubt that those signing the petition are compassionate and well meaning. But I believe you are missing the point Puffrose. The argument is that this policy wouldn't have existed in the first place if the insurer had been told the full facts.

Yes Mr Hughes paid his premiums - but they wouldn't have been the right premiums if the insurer had not assessed the true situation. In any case I would imagine that even if FOS finds against the Hughes family, they will get their premiums back as the contract will be considered to have been null and void from the start.

If the insurer pays out, the money doesn't come from thin air - it comes from everyone else who has paid into the pool. Once we start saying that insurers should pay out whatever, we will all end up losing.

And in case you think I'm being too hard about this - if there is a call for donations to the Hughes family, I will be pleased to contribute.

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I've sent them and their STAFF a lovely Xmas Card ........you know me I'm ALL heart.

Sparkie

[Bill-K]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I have also sent the card, Sparkie - AND received an acknowledgement. All good stuff.

I appreciate Charlie505's posts here, in that he has made the effort to respond. That is something which we see very little of, and it perhaps suggests that the whispers of a million people are still heard by those whom we often feel are deaf to their clients' voices.

I really cannot accept, however, that the validity of a health insurance policy can pivot on such trivial issues as 'pins and needles.' I have had 'pins and needles' on many occasions. I have also had the misfortune to occasionally fart more than once per hour, had a boil on my bum, picked a scab, burst a spot on my nose, had chilblains, norovirus, innumerable colds, flu, got p1$$ed and puked my guts up, had great fun with diarrhoea, etc. I've been stung by nettles, bees, wasps, insurers, banks, doorstep salesmen. I can't remember how many headaches I've had (neither can Mrs-K), nor nosebleeds, earaches, swollen sinuses, stubbed toes - the list is endless.

If you are telling us that we must disclose every single piece of minutiae that might possibly have a bearing on the validity of our insurance, then you are effectively declaring that such insurance is unsaleable, and therefore mis-sold, IMHO. If so, then it is being mis-sold on a grand scale, and that needs investigating. Insurance has - in the eyes of many (including myself) - been hi-jacked by scammers. I admire your b@11$ in posting here - but I invite you to convincingly defend the industry upon whose behalf I assume you are posting. There are many here who would hear you and take note.

...Good sir.

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Quote from Bill-K
"I have also sent the card, Sparkie - AND received an acknowledgement. All good stuff."

Don't think I will get an acknowledgement Bill...................I may get a visit from the men in Blue......as my card was a little blue......definately was not a white one!!!

Sparkie

[Bill-K]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Oooops !!!

Well, considering that we are apparently expected to declare abso-b100dy everything in our submissions to these firms, then Sparkie's 'Frank and Earnest' communication is what they should now expect from us all - bum-boils and all !!! :target:

[Charlie505]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I have also sent the card, Sparkie - AND received an acknowledgement. All good stuff.

I appreciate Charlie505's posts here, in that he has made the effort to respond. That is something which we see very little of, and it perhaps suggests that the whispers of a million people are still heard by those whom we often feel are deaf to their clients' voices.

I really cannot accept, however, that the validity of a health insurance policy can pivot on such trivial issues as 'pins and needles.' I have had 'pins and needles' on many occasions. I have also had the misfortune to occasionally fart more than once per hour, had a boil on my bum, picked a scab, burst a spot on my nose, had chilblains, norovirus, innumerable colds, flu, got p1$$ed and puked my guts up, had great fun with diarrhoea, etc. I've been stung by nettles, bees, wasps, insurers, banks, doorstep salesmen. I can't remember how many headaches I've had (neither can Mrs-K), nor nosebleeds, earaches, swollen sinuses, stubbed toes - the list is endless.

If you are telling us that we must disclose every single piece of minutiae that might possibly have a bearing on the validity of our insurance, then you are effectively declaring that such insurance is unsaleable, and therefore mis-sold, IMHO. If so, then it is being mis-sold on a grand scale, and that needs investigating. Insurance has - in the eyes of many (including myself) - been hi-jacked by scammers. I admire your b@11$ in posting here - but I invite you to convincingly defend the industry upon whose behalf I assume you are posting. There are many here who would hear you and take note.

...Good sir.

Bill-K

It is sometimes difficult for people to know what they should disclose and what they should not on an insurance form and there can be genuine mistakes, as well as deliberate omissions. Next year the new Consumer Insurance Act will change the law in consumers' favour - but it will still require people to answer a stright question with a straight answer, and rightly so. This is not about nosebleeds and stubbed toes - it is about whether you thought something serious enough to consult your doctor (particularly in this case when pins and needles are a classic symptom of Multiple Sclerosis and would have caused an insurer to investigate thoroughly). As a policyholder contributing to a pool, I have a right to expect that my insurer will only pay out valid claims. I do not expect them to pay out when they have not been told the truth about something that was both significant and material to the decision to enter into a contract.

We do not know the full facts of the Nic Hughes claim - we only have one side, because the insurer is bound by confidentiality. However there is an Ombudsman to resolve this sort of dispute, and it is no friend of the industry. It is interesting that the insurer has asked for this case to be decided by the Ombudsman and the only reason I can think of that would cause them to want this (while the family appears reluctant) is that one is very sure of its ground and the other has been advised otherwise. Every day this campaign goes on makes it less likely that the insurer will pay out - they can't send a message to their policyholders that anyone who shouts loud enough can get what they want regardless of the merits of their case.

As for mis-sold policies, well we don't know how Nic Hughes got his. Most policies have some sort of intermediary involved, and if he was advised to answer questions the way he did then that is a line of enquiry for the family to pursue

This doesn't mean that the insurance industry couldn't do better, (all industries should be continually working to raise their standards) and it doesn't mean either that Mr. Hughes was one of the many 'scammers' who think it fair game to defraud insurers (and hence other policyholders like you and I). But those are separate debates we can have. This one is about Nic Hughes's family who need to be looked after. I think they are being badly advised by this campaign - but if it were to change tack, submit the case to the Ombudsman, and call for donations from the public, I would be the first to get out my cheque book.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

The cause of Mr Hughes passing was nothing to do with MS, he had cancer, a condition he was covered for by the insurance he paid for.

Perhaps it you interest you to learn that the Insurance company have refused point blank to meet with the family or their representatives with regards to this?

I have an insurance policy myself but would find it disgraceful if my company refused to pay out on a policy holders policy because of a totally unrelated symptom, to the point where I would be moving the policy to a new company!

I will continue to shout as loud as I can until his family get what he paid out for.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

If Mr Hughes had a medical with Friends Life and they did not pick up a serious condition such as Cancer then it stands to reason that he did not know he had Cancer at that time. Someone being Friends Life is culprable for paying out to this mans family and not causing them so much distress. When we had a brokerage many years ago one of our clients a young man aged about 28 came to us for a life policy - the insurers sent him to a doctor for a medical report and discovered he had Cancer and they declined to insure him. He was unaware at that time he had Cancer and unfortunately died within a the year of finding out and left two young kids and his wife.

I would say that the Insurance company must pay out because they had every opportunity to send him for a medical and this would have been picked up and furthermore they would have had his GP's notes and if Cancer was noted and did not declare it. They accepted the risk and they had every chance to either decline or load the and in those circumstances they must pay out on this claim. Pins and needles were not the cause of his death and may or not be linked to MS.

[Charlie505]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

The cause of Mr Hughes passing was nothing to do with MS, he had cancer, a condition he was covered for by the insurance he paid for.

Perhaps it you interest you to learn that the Insurance company have refused point blank to meet with the family or their representatives with regards to this?

I have an insurance policy myself but would find it disgraceful if my company refused to pay out on a policy holders policy because of a totally unrelated symptom, to the point where I would be moving the policy to a new company!

I will continue to shout as loud as I can until his family get what he paid out for.

Puffrose, I'm sorry but you are misunderstanding the way all insurance works here. It doesn't matter that Mr Hughes didn't die of MS - the point is that if he had declared the pins and needles, the insurer would have been concerned that it might have been a symptom of something uninsurable. To give you another example, if you are an eighteen year old driving a Ferrari but said you were thirty with a Fiesta in order to get insured then you can't imagine you are covered just because the accident you were involved in wasn't your fault or anything to do with your age of car type. You wouldn't have had the policy if you had told the insurer the truth. Likewise in Critical Illness Cover like Nic Hughes had, you couldn't deny you had a heart attack when you applied, and yet still expect to be covered if you were hit by a bus.

I am glad you have an insurance policy Puffrose, but your insurer and every other takes the same position on this because it is enshrined in law. You are not covered for anything if you didn't tell the truth about everything material to the insurers decision to enter the contract. And this isn't just about insurance - any type of contract can be voidable if you enter it on the basis of a misrepresentation. However it does worry me that people don't appear to understand this and may therefore be making serious misjudgments about how truthful to be with insurers.

You may wish to fight for Nic's family but I suspect that as time passes supporters will increasingly ask themselves why this isn't being referred to the Ombudsman.

[Charlie505]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

If Mr Hughes had a medical with Friends Life and they did not pick up a serious condition such as Cancer then it stands to reason that he did not know he had Cancer at that time. Someone being Friends Life is culprable for paying out to this mans family and not causing them so much distress. When we had a brokerage many years ago one of our clients a young man aged about 28 came to us for a life policy - the insurers sent him to a doctor for a medical report and discovered he had Cancer and they declined to insure him. He was unaware at that time he had Cancer and unfortunately died within a the year of finding out and left two young kids and his wife.

I would say that the Insurance company must pay out because they had every opportunity to send him for a medical and this would have been picked up and furthermore they would have had his GP's notes and if Cancer was noted and did not declare it. They accepted the risk and they had every chance to either decline or load the and in those circumstances they must pay out on this claim. Pins and needles were not the cause of his death and may or not be linked to MS.

Tuttsi

As I understand this case from what has been said in public, the issue here isn't about cancer - it is about whether the insurer would have taken on the policy if Nic had said he had consulted his doctor about pins and needles when directly asked that question. The fact that the cause of the claim is unrelated to a material non-disclosure is not relevant in any type of insurance, whether it is motor, marine, life, aviation. You must disclose everything material to be covered for anything.

Pins and needles can be attributed to a number of conditions - but some can be conditions that would make you uninsurable for Critical Illness cover. Insurers don't ask for medical evidence (particularly intrusive and expensive examinations) without good cause based on what has been disclosed by the applicant.

By the way, it would be rare for a standard medical examination for insurance purposes to be able to pick up a cancer that the customer and GP did not know about.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

You may wish to fight for Nic's family but I suspect that as time passes supporters will increasingly ask themselves why this isn't being referred to the Ombudsman.

Or maybe more to the point, why the insurers have refused to meet the family, pay out on a fully paid policy and left a young family in the lurch.. goes both ways!

[TUTTSI]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

How can we be so sure Charlie that the insurers asked that specific question about pins and needles? We only have their word for this and unless they can provide oral or written evidence about this point they will have to pay out or possibly return all the premiums. Also, surely they asked for the doctors notes for Nic and if that was a material fact this would have shown up on this, then the insurers could decided to decline the policy at that time. I think it is a case where the Insurers have not done their proper checks and have failed this insured's family in not paying out on his death.

Tuttsi

As I understand this case from what has been said in public, the issue here isn't about cancer - it is about whether the insurer would have taken on the policy if Nic had said he had consulted his doctor about pins and needles when directly asked that question. The fact that the cause of the claim is unrelated to a material non-disclosure is not relevant in any type of insurance, whether it is motor, marine, life, aviation. You must disclose everything material to be covered for anything.

Pins and needles can be attributed to a number of conditions - but some can be conditions that would make you uninsurable for Critical Illness cover. Insurers don't ask for medical evidence (particularly intrusive and expensive examinations) without good cause based on what has been disclosed by the applicant.

By the way, it would be rare for a standard medical examination for insurance purposes to be able to pick up a cancer that the customer and GP did not know about.

[MissFM]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Have been following this thread for some time - it is truly heartbreaking.

Obviously first impulse = sign petition, there is an injustice here

But Charlie 505's argument is compelling - can't help thinking that the best we could all do is

- chip in for the family (it's easy to sign a petition, more money-where-mouth is to lob over a tenner or so, particularly for those who can afford it) Is there anyone here in the position to set up a charity for the family?

- lobby parliament to change the law (it does look as if the insurers are acting within the letter of the law from the evidence above and are obliged to defend) and make the petition aimed at parliament to change the law on insurer's smallprint etc..

- give the insurers the option to be the good guys and make an ex gratia payment to the family - they can easily afford the sum they would have been liable for - even over or above - but will not be willing (or allowed by their lawyers) to admit liability, for the reasons that Charlie has given. If they can be seen to be the good guys rather than the ones resisting being railroaded into submission they might be more generous = more constructive result for family