Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

[Ruby]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I have gained a 'wee' bit of respect back for the FOS on the back of story. So glad to hear of the good news for the surviving family.

[Inca]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I'm going to be as honest and truthful as I can be Charlie,,I only saw the part of the argument I wanted to see through very biased eyes.
I saw FL wreaking pain and financial havoc on a dying man and his young family all because they could and that sickened me to my stomach.
I don't understand the whys and wherefores of financial institutions,,or consumer law. I'm not thick ,I just haven't ever needed to know it.
I'm so glad the FOS overturned the decision,,not because it had to,but because there is the element of 'doubt' Did Nic deliberately fail to disclose or did it never even cross his mind to? Only one person knows the true answer to that question and he is no longer here to ask so the FOS really had no option but to uphold his widows claim (imho).The rest of the issues I leave to those of you who understand what you are talking about

[dogtired]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

On watch dog last night
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I keep asking the same question.

WHY would he lie about a sympton that had absolutely nothing to do with his illness?
Did you disclose every sneeze, cough burp and hiccup when you applied for life insurance? Did you disclose that once you hit yourself on the hand with a hammer and you got a blood blister? possibly not.

Pins and needles,that were put down to a possible trapped nerve, were not disclosed as Nik didnt think it was relevent, especially as his doctor had said it bore no relevence to the case..

Mob rule and people power are 2 every different things

[dogtired]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Interesting to see that they "reluctantly" agreed to the payout in the end and Anne Robinson did not seem to get a clear answer to her questions did she.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I recently through my insurers as I needed some physio after my orthopedic consultants examined me for an inflamed Achilles heel - the insurers put me through the ringer. They took 30 minutes to go through my medical history, what medication I was taking, whether I had pins and needles etc, etc.................. I have an achilles heel problem that readed it's ugly head and I had an inflammation and all I needed was an appointment for a physio. After this long and stupid conversation the young lady said they can deal with my physio by email - I told her that my consultant wanted me to go to a physio therapist and not a do it myself method - if I did it wrong I could end up making it far worse. She then agreed to me seeing a physio - what a lot of nonsense and a waste of money by our insurers. The questions they asked were not relevant to my current condition why I was being referred to the physio by my orthopedic consultant who had examined me and knows exactly what is needed.

[Charlie505]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I keep answering the same question too Puff

'Lie' is an immotive word because it implies dishonest intent - and that isn't what is suggested here. No you don't have to disclose every 'cough sneeze and burp' an insurer won't ask you to, and the law doesn't expect you to. But it does expect you to answer a straight question with the correct answer. So if you are asked specifically if you have suffered from pins and needles and you know you have recently seen your doctor about it then the answer can't be 'no' - you may not think it relevant but that wasn't the question.

But my understanding is that the FOS judgment was more about the way the information was obtained (when the claim was made) than much of what we have discussed on this forum. Same effect in finding for Nic's family but different rationale.

[Charlie505]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

Yes the insurers were still reluctant - they still believe they were right - but that shows that FOS is neutral and can be relied upon by consumers.

No Anne didn't get a clear answer - but the first rule when going on TV is to get your own message across, not play the interviewer's game. If he had answered Anne's question it would have meant an argument about the role of doctors ...and that would have eaten up the allotted two minutes.

[Charlie505]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

The Watchdog coverage of this case was very thought provoking, even though the format is designed for entertainment rather than full exploration of the issues. Nic Highes’s partner was impressive – articulate, genuine, and intelligent. The industry spokesman had a tough gig as and was clearly under tight constraints as to what he could say, so I think it would have been difficult to have done better than he did.
Emotions have run high on this case, and like many others I have found it troubling even if I have been on a different side of the argument to most of you. But what can we draw from it as lessons for the future? On reflection I would suggest the following...

Lessons for Insurers

• You need to think carefully and creatively about this – payout rates may be much improved but consumer opinion is moving even faster. What seems rational and reasonable to an insurer still seems unfair to the public. Somehow the mechanics of insurance practice must be enhanced with more emotional intelligence – and that can’t be just explaining how risk works.
• You must recognise that FOS are not bound by the law (even one newly passed by Parliament). Even if a person has not provided correct answers on an application, you can’t discover that by asking a doctor unrelated questions at point of claim. That practice needs to stop or FOS will keep finding against you in cases you consider straightforward non-disclosure.

Lessons for Consumers

• You need to answer a straight yes/no question correctly and in accordance with the law. Don’t make assumptions or you may find a claim disputed.
• Don’t take the view that you only need to give correct answers about things you think you might claim about - insurance doesn’t work that way.
• If you have a dispute with an insurer, go straight to FOS - it is free, impartial, binding on the insurer, and will adjudicate on the basis of what it thinks is genuinely fair.

Lessons for Campaigners

• The world may be increasingly about social networking but an online campaign can be counter-productive. An insurer won’t put principle aside in the face of a campaign – it will just entrench their position. A campaign should be left for when other avenues have been exhausted.
• Online campaigning may increase in the future, and we may find one day that there are agreed protocols. Responsible campaigners do need to establish ethical boundaries for their followers, however passionate they may feel. Ordinary members of staff at the insurer found themselves subject to personal troll attacks through no fault of their own – and it is unlikely that Nic Hughes would have wanted this sort of behaviour to have happened in his name.

A final reflection. Nic Hughes’s death was a tragedy for his family – but the same will happen to another family today, tomorrow and the next day. Some will be insured, and some won’t – whatever we all learn from this case the outcome needs to be that more people are protected from life’s adversity.

[Inca]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I don't think Nic answered questions dishonestly to deliberately defraud FL,,and I don't for one minute the FOS would have upheld the complaint if they thought he had either.
The policy was found to be valid and FL have had to cough up,,and if adding my name to the 'webmob' helped that happen then I'm proud I did.
Sometimes the only way to make institutions sit up and really take notice is by shouting loudly and in unison.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

exactly my point Incs.

Big companies are not immune to people power, if we all stopped buying PG tips someone in teabag central would be wondering why.. the campaign on Twitter was just that, a campaign stating (to quote my darling Inca) "This stinks!"
People expressed genuine disgust and unhappiness at the idea of declining to pay out on a (I have since watched the programme and know slightly more) a DISCLOSED side effect of an illness.. see Nik didnt disclose it as he had already disclosed "pins and needles" as a side effect of a disclosed disorder which was accepted.

The simple fact is, the insurers didnt fancy a big payout on a policy that possibly should never have been set up in the first place

Anyhow the right descion was made.. where did you put that champagne Incs??

[Inca]

Re: Help us make Friends Life pay out Nic Hughes' critical illness policy

I'll tell you what would bloody help though,,making the whole 'form filling' of policy applications easier and in plain understandable English!
I can't be the only one who starts to fill in a form and goes :faint: cos it's so flipping complicated !!
I didn't know that my household insurance could possibly help me pay for a solicitor for some things,,I thought it covered my goods and chattels against damage and theft!!(Amazing what you can find out on LB lol)
And don't even get me started on the car insurance...Trust me,,in my case it's bloody biblical.
My Life Insurance took ages to 'get right' (for obvious reasons)...and involved Drs,Consultants,Solicitor and an Independant Assessor to make sure it had no loopholes,get out of jail free cards (for insurance company) or other little surprises that might crop up to prevent them paying out when the time comes.
So,,providing I don't die of pins + needles of the lungs,,,or numbness of my breathing system I'm able to do exactly what most other people do ,I can die from what kills me msl: